Spring won't open saves!

[TradeMark]

Technically there can never be more than 100%, therefore, saying that something is 101% would in actuality put the percentages in the range of 0 - 1000, ergo, 10.1%



I just hate it when people say 110% or stuff like that. It drives me nuts.

take a bottle of 100% alcohol, then take another bottle, now put the another bottle inside the first bottle (dont put the bottle, only the contents of the bottle) now you have 200% of alcohol in the first bottle! and it literally explodes in your mouth if you try to taste it.

[prankster]

I am in the middle of the most intense spring battle I have played yet, against AI, on Balanced Annihilation. I then have to stop playing for a long period of time, so I want to save. I press Esc, click save, and wait for 15 mins. Now, it either locks up or it keeps going. If it keeps going, I close out of spring, and when I get back, I open the lobby, go to "Saved Games," click my saved game, and I get the error message: "No compatible installed Spring version has been found, this savegame requires version:
Your current installed versions are: 0.80.4"
And after I click OK I get an invalid replay error: "I don't think you'll be able to watch this replay. Try anyways? (MIGHT CRASH!)"
I have tried clicking yes, and it just brings up a grey loading screen of which remarkably does absolutely nothing. Help please!

has saves ever been loaded correctly?

[smoth]

once upon a time but they just loaded the units onto the field not the actual game state.

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

@imbaczek

I DONT say it is easy .....
I know enough from assembler/ANSI-C and partly C++ cooding to think
over the problems to implement load/save in a framework who was never build with this in state of mind.....
But to be serious ... IF spring ever will reach V1.x it musst have load/save ... so the work is not gone .. only come later with a even more complicatet engine ....

@id10terror

Thanks
and i know realy a other game without load/save
A open clone of warzone .. have found it on my search of an alternate strategic game WITH load/save ....


I dont say i will stop to play spring, but i play it only if i have enough free time - dont like to play a 5h game and then i musst break - only no load/save is available ... and nearly all off my friends who love it say -> come again to play spring IF load/save working ... lets play us other games

Its a free game and cost nothing - so to be fair it is a hugh work and a fantastic game - but for a realtime strategic game with a community who set high priority of good balancing of the units and then you MUSST play a game in one TimeFrame without break ... sorry.. for this kind of game it is a bad feeling ....
(no one care if a racing or jump-run game cant save ....)

Regards
R-TEAM

[id10terror]

Houjai, i have given you a few days to 'accurately' translate my post. I know you have been on the forums for the last few days, i looked at your posts. I'm quite unhappy with what you think i said and i'd like you to understand my original post. That said given that the moderators have shown up after that post i'm going to ask them to officially delete it if you dont respond, i dont mind people suggesting that i'm an a$$h013(cause i'm not far off) but i detest people putting words in my mouth.

R-Team, I have the original disc warzone 2100 for the pc and i have killed the open source version to death. :)

All, please understand i like open source and given a choice between spring or nothing, i choose spring. However given a choice between spring and ta, i choose ta for only one reason: save and load.

Anyways i have download the source so i can inspect the current save/load operation wish me luck in compiling on vc2008. I hope i find some object orientation in there....

[smoth]

All, please understand i like open source and given a choice between spring or nothing, i choose spring. However given a choice between spring and ta, i choose ta for only one reason: save and load.

Spring is not ta. It is an engine.

does this look like TA?

[id10terror]

Ahh you seem to be implying that ta doesn't have a game engine, so i guess i'm just moving units around in cad or somthing then?
oh as a second comment, can you save and load with the ai using the mod your pic show?
and 3rdly when did i say that spring was ta? how could i choose ta if spring was the 'same'
Maybe i have missed something feel free to tell me what it is.

the 4th thing i think is amusing is found on your gundam webpage (http://gundam.smoth.net/about.html)
"Giant Japanimation-style robots smashing each other to junk is the gist of Gundam Annihilation. What more could you want?"

hmmmn it seams you know about what originally brought forth the need for spring.
Gundam Annihilation later renamed Gundam RTS
Balanced Annihilation
Complete Annihilation
NOTA
XTA

see where i'm going?

While spring is not a remake of ta, in the beginning it seemed to 'borrow' a lot from it. Spring 1944 users would probably be quite happy to be able to save and load thier games(with the ai).

[Neddie]

His point was merely that Spring is not a remake of TA, which is a common misconception. It had nothing to do with the topic under discussion, which is that the save/load element of Spring does not presently work in most cases.

[TradeMark]

Hey arent there programs that can save your RAM on disk and therefore save practically anything? maybe try those.

...just dont plug more than 256megs mem so its fast save ^^

[Argh]

Um... look, it's not hard to make this work fairly well:

1. Save all Units. Save only their positions, health state, and Orders. Save the state of Energy and Metal. If games need other resources / Lua states saved, then have a method to write the Lua variables to the save, or make the game designers code it.
2. Do not save projectiles.
3. Do not save Unit COB states.
4. Fix the AIs that ship with Spring so that they don't crash when presented with a lot of Units at game-start. It is about as completely retarded that they fail under that circumstance as the AI that borks when it thinks it's on "Speedmetal", even when the game design calls for that kind of map. Writing a conditional IF that requires an AI to evaluate the state of play if presented with a non-standard situation at game-start should not be rocket science. If not the standard start, get the resources, Iterate through every Unit, declare initial tasks, and wait for the next update then loop as normal.

I don't think there are any excuses for this not working, AI-side, other than sheer disregard for the players... and I think it's laughable that anybody suggests that this isn't getting done because it's a non-priority. By definition, AIs are what people play Spring with... OFFLINE. Most people who play offline are probably interested in savegames, because they like playing from a save, trying something different, etc. Basically, not having AIs that can handle this means that AI developers aren't serving their natural audience. which is not a surprise at all, but still bothers me considerably.

Anyhow, that change to saves would work well enough for most purposes, be tiny (World Builder does practically all of step 1, it's teeny) and be compatible with practically any game design other than something that's pure Lua and doesn't use the Unit system at all. If you merely add in projectile states (target if guided, velocity and heading if not), then reinitialize each projectile at start, it's still tiny, and does just about everything people could reasonably want from a savegame system.

[hoijui]

If youd really care for AIs, youd know that i added commands some time ago, which can kill and recreate ais during game time (btw, i mentione these commands in this very thread). at the time i added these commands, i made the main AIs at thaqt time (KAIK, AAI, RAI) work with these commands. i also described many times how easy it woudl be to use these to make AIs work.. actually, that it does not need any change, if the rest of save/load works.
for a save/load mechnaism as simple as you described it, Lua is enougth .. but hey.. doesnt this already exist in KP...
a thing that you, Argh, among others in this thread, not seem to understand is:
devs: not interested in saves
devs: not interested in doing saves ot get more spring audience
others: not happy wiht this, bugging devs
devs: still not interested, say wont do, say others can do themselfs if they so much need it
others: going on bugging
devs: ignoring others

it is ok to request it once, but then just shut up or do it yourself, if you get told it wont be done.
in case someone did not understand this by now, this is not negotiable. this is how it is, and you can not change it.

[Argh]

I will think about whether I want to add another month to P.U.R.E. 1.3's release and solve these problems. I need to consult with various folks here about some of the issues.

Pylon Wars could, with a modicum of work, become a near-universal basic cheating AI. World Builder is basically a savegame system already (although KP's sounds like it's much more polished in terms of UI).

[id10terror]

Ahhh, hoijui i see you have returned to this thread, care to answer my last post to you?

And where exactly are those commands you posted in this thread?
And if all the framework to make ai's work during load is present then why doesn't it?

What crazy world are you living in? name for me one real time strategy game for sale that doesn't support save and load. One might argue that this is one of the most important parts of a RTS especially when an AI is involved. Better yet if you aren't going to have save/load then you may as well scrap the ai framework and save the dev time for more appropriate things.

As soon as you thought you heard somthing inappropriate from me you have started ignoring me, however you post in reply clearly indicates that you did not understand me.

Houjai you are starting to really frustrate me, very soon i'm gonna show up in other threads you post in and post what i said to you and your responce. And i wont interpret them, copy and paste is my friend.

I have PM'ed you and will give you a few days to respond, if you don't i'm going to start msging the moderators. I dont care if i have to leave the forums, its not like this is a place where things get sorted. Its a place where people get told how it is and there is no discussion what so ever.

Houjai:
"it is ok to request it once, but then just shut up or do it yourself, if you get told it wont be done.
in case someone did not understand this by now, this is not negotiable. this is how it is, and you can not change it."


I thought i'd try a more constructive tact here ->http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 42#p401742

[id10terror]

Hoijui, you have been given enough time to correct your error, i have reported your post to the moderators.

[Forboding Angel]

./facepalm... seriously id10t? you reported a developer's post, and for what? "Lying"? Please don't insult us. I care about save games as much as anyone else, and I am waiting from someone to implement what argh has been talking about, but it's a lot of work and won't be happening "tomorrow".

[Pressure Line]

WHOA. Thats getting a bit extreme dude. Hoijui giving you an answer you dont like, then not answering pm's is NOT a reason to get the moderators involved. They are busy enough dealing with the real problems in this community.

I haven't tested AAI with what im working on, because its incomplete, and I haven't decided on the best method of achieving several important gameplay ideas. But i have tried KAI and RAI; KAI does not work, RAI does. "Why the fsck should I care?" I hear you asking, the 'commander' of my game is an armed building that cannot build, and at gamestart it also spawns a pair of construction vehicles, KAI cannot handle this, and crashes, RAI shrugs it off and carries on. Presumably this is an example of the command Hoijui mentioned working (in RAI's case). So at least one of the AI's that ships with Spring possibly already works with Save/Load.

Now, at this point, you have four options.
1) Act like a grown up, realise that Hoijui has said "No I'm not going to fix your toy, but I've set up all the tools for you to try and fix it yourself." and get on with the job.
2) Accept the fact that it's on the list of 'things to do' but not on anyones 'priority' list, it will probably get done one day, but don't hold your breath.
3) Keep going on the way you are now, continue acting belligerently and being abusive, your toy stays broken, and you risk get kicked out of the playground.
4) Just leave now, maybe this game isn't what you are looking for.

In case of option 1, Hoijui might even lend assistance if you get really stuck, if you ask *nicely*.

[Tobi]

And where exactly are those commands you posted in this thread?
And if all the framework to make ai's work during load is present then why doesn't it?

Maybe because AI developers don't care, didn't have time to use it yet, etc.?

What crazy world are you living in? name for me one real time strategy game for sale that doesn't support save and load.

I marked the mistake you make here.

Better yet if you aren't going to have save/load then you may as well scrap the ai framework and save the dev time for more appropriate things.

That is just bullshit. Some people do have continuous timespans of 30-45 minutes to play a full game against an AI, and besides that, the amount of actively developed AIs already is enough reason to keep the AI framework.

As soon as you thought you heard somthing inappropriate from me you have started ignoring me, however you post in reply clearly indicates that you did not understand me.

He just stated the facts. Facts aren't arguable...


As Pressure Line states, there's a good chance it will eventually be fixed, but giving any sort of ETA is just pointless, as currently no one is working on it.

[zwzsg]

Technically there can never be more than 100%

Yes there can:
- I can have a tax increase of 110% (wich would mean newtax=oldtax+(110/100 of oldtax)).
- I can have a weight of 110% the average human weight (which would mean my_weight"=110/100 * standard_weight).

therefore, saying that something is 101% would in actuality put the percentages in the range of 0 - 1000, ergo, 10.1%

No.
It's not a percentage if it's a per thousand!
And per thousand isn't written % but %┬░ (but with the last ┬░ actually down). If you write 101%, it means 101/100, so 1.01. But not 10.1%.

[hoijui]

i guess that what you mean is theoretical, not technical.
the fixed expression per-cent (latin? i guess), means about: x many out of 100. therefore, it is inaproriate to use per-cent or % in a cenario as zwzsg describes it, as it would be wrong to say:
i have 110 out of 100 parts of the average weight.
you would have to say something like:
i weight 1.1 times the average weight.

it is true that 100+% values are often used, but i guess that would seem wrong to a roman, and it kind of contradicts the original idea.
its just that it is sort of more convienient to most people, to still use stuff like 110% instead of 1.1, because it seems less technical to them, more easy to understand, and it auto implies some sort of crelation of values, eg you compare your weight to the average, or a part to the total.

%o is called pro-mille (or something that sounds like this)
why is it once pre and once pro? or is it only pro in german? :D

[zwzsg]

devs: not interested in saves
devs: not interested in doing saves ot get more spring audience
others: not happy wiht this, bugging devs
devs: still not interested, say wont do, say others can do themselfs if they so much need it
others: going on bugging
devs: ignoring others

You forgot:
engine devs: not interested in saves
game devs: doing saves on their own
players: ignoring Lua-based saves, asking again anyway