Handling dropped players and/or hadicaps.(GRTS)

[smoth]

(argh please stay out of this thread)
(if you do not know gundam's resource system please do not reply.)

So I have an issue in GundamRTS.

I have a custom resource system that doesn't rely on metal points or resource collection. The issue is when a player loses connection/rage quits or when there are not enough players to have an even match. So the solution I have been thinking of is the following:

------------- A --------------
for our first example we will use a 2v4

At the beginning of a match, log the number of players. the side with 2 players gets a 2/4 bonus to basic production and a reduction(not sure) of build cost or powercost.

This would mean that handicap needs not be set. it would be handled by the game automatically.
------------- B --------------
for our second example we will use a 2v2

a player drops from connection issues/rage quits.
- his units are not allowed to be taken, they will stay as they are.
- his ally will get a 2/1 bonus to resource production.
------------- - --------------
so there are of course a way this can be exploited:
- A player uses a second computer to set a dummy player who he will time out in game. That issue is for the host to deal with.

so do you guys think this will be a neat way to handle the issues with players dropping/leaving/having uneven teams?

[imbaczek]

theoretically it's ok. in practice, e.g in 1 vs 2 case, i predict problems with one player being able to quickly outtech the other team if his rare materials production is too high. IOW it depends on whether a wide tech gap gives you enough advantage to be OP even in 1v2.

[Neddie]

Also remember that you're only allowed to produce X of a unit. That would need to increase with a drop as well, twice the heroes can overcome the same economy only allowed half that number.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

gundams resource system would be alot more interesting if it was tied to territory, which would also mitigate this problem.

[Gota]

gundams resource system would be alot more interesting if it was tied to territory, which would also mitigate this problem.

Only way to do that and still have the exact same eco is have maps with piles of different res,scattered around the map,the players can harvest.
Though this is kinda of a derailment of the thread's topic.
Plus wouldn't making Gundam rely heavier on territory make it even harder for the outnumbered team to win?

[Neddie]

Not at all. The economy is already indirectly dependent on the map, you need flat territory to place the structures to refine the various advanced materials. You also need copious amounts of land to sustain the power plants that permit your factories and refineries to function. That could simply be extended, the Basic resource could be permitted to grow based on the amount of territory held by the player...

[1v0ry_k1ng]

infact, you could even use the pre-existing metal maps to dictate territorial resources which are then harvested by structures


...wait,

[Gota]

Not at all. The economy is already indirectly dependent on the map, you need flat territory to place the structures to refine the various advanced materials. You also need copious amounts of land to sustain the power plants that permit your factories and refineries to function. That could simply be extended, the Basic resource could be permitted to grow based on the amount of territory held by the player...

What like playing on tiny maps or maps that have only a few small places where you can make structures?or making buildings be huge and take tons of space?
I doubt that was how Smoth planned it to work...
at least when you consider the huge maps that were made for Gundam and how little space of those maps your base actually needed.

[Pxtl]

Gundam's econ is a good fit for gundam. It means two things (1) you need to build a whole city, instead of scattered outposts. What's a giant robot game without cities? (2) there is a limit to the econ, meaning players will win or lose based on their command of units and rationing resources, not simply by overwhelming force.

The capped econ keeps the game tactical.

edit: anyways, on the subject, CA has a problem called "boostrush". In it, you get two players building a single factory, and assisting it. In CA, the first 1000 resources spent by a comm are hyper-buildpower fast-burning resources. What it means is that a 2-man team can push out a terriffic amount of firepower for the initial rush... but one player is left without a starting factory, and can spend the rest of the game hamstrung... but the other player will have dealt a catastrophic amount of damage to his enemies.

A "drop and give double-resources to a teammate at the beginning of the game" stunt in Gundam could produce similar results.

On the other hand, the plan sounds like the most balanced approach. I'd say "give it a try and see what happens".

[smoth]

Ivory:
Gundam is about units and one large base isolated bases do not work in the gundam universe. There are ocasional outposts used for resupply but they often times have to be fortified etc. So the OTA style of random assed metal collectors every where makes little sense in gundam. All bases in gundam canonically are large facilities. The econ is the way it is because that closest fits what goes on in gundam and because I want the focus to be on ms production. Mid game most players divert all resources to producing refined and exotic and focus entirely on attacking the enemy. When the enemy hits you they almost always destroy your production facilities which starts your basic production once again.

the system allows for better tactical play and recovery. A defeat has to be won with a solid attack otherwise the other player can recover. I find it is more forgiving.

imbaczek:
Tech is limited by the research system, next version I am moving research to it's own resource. So that won't be an issue.


Pxtl
correct. The capped resources are there for that reason.

[Gota]

Gundam's econ is a good fit for gundam. It means two things (1) you need to build a whole city, instead of scattered outposts. What's a giant robot game without cities? (2) there is a limit to the econ, meaning players will win or lose based on their command of units and rationing resources, not simply by overwhelming force.

The capped econ keeps the game tactical.

well DOW2 is very tactical(assuming tactical means a lot of small army micro as opposed to economy control and huge army mass control) yet is based around controlling territory(points scattered in different locations on the map).
Want tactical limit economy and base building leaving only unit control.

[smoth]

DOW it tactical based on unit equipment and spells. Not because of the requistion points. Those are strategic elements.

Gundam is not and never will be about landgrabbing. You lot that request it do not understand the gundam universe.

0079 the zeonic and federation forces already did landgrab. The rest is defense or attacking of bases. Occasionally they may reinforce a base or build a new one but most of their supply lines already exist via media drops, hlvs or massive amounts of underground storage. After the war it is mostly them hunting down resistance bases etc. Then resurgences in one form or another.

We are talking a universe where they can get resources from space asteroids etc. They can actually just dump a bunch of raw metal wherever they please. The only issues are getting defenses, power and production. Which is why basic is stable. Also why I am leaning towards a +X to basic solution as it would mean the commander is gone and the resources were diverted.

Actual mining in gundam is done via huge mining bases like odessa. There is also no point in going out and holding random places on a map unless there is actual tactical deployment happening there. Minovsky particles disrupt most normal means of communication and in a battlefield they often have to rely of visual methods like lasers on shielded cables connecting two machines. If the particle density is not too thick they can rely on using comm equipment like radios etc. However because they cannot always rely on communication, bases are concentrated with constant scouting via visual methods. True that they have things like the luggun or dish but those aircraft use visual confirmation and don't really go by their radar all the time.

Either way, this thread wasn't about the gundam economy.