What if we took this one level higher...

[GrOuNd_ZeRo]

DJ, let me state some things here.

-In the beginning, EVERYTHING on the Internet was free, not until Id Software produced their first Shareware game did selling software on the internet start, Many people miss the inocent time that we could just post something WE made on the net for everyone for free, the corporate bastards that wanted to profit off of (sometimes) poorly programmed stuff screwed up the internet as we knew it, although Doom was so revolutionary it just had to charge for it, they put alot of work in it into something revolutionary, Spring might have potentional, but it will only be revolutionary because it's FREE to play in ANY WAY and has a community supporting it by programming for it.

-In the TA community we only payed for one thing, and one thing only and still that was HIGHLY controversional, guess what it was...A race, sure it had a nice new interface and such and other neat things, it was still looked down upon, I could have charged for my work, but I didn't because I want it to be free, free to people who can't afford much, I know poverty, and I am giving free content and will continue to do so.

-No Offense, but you are the one that is new here, and you are already demanding payment, guess what, we never hired you, i'm sure you made 50k before, but this is the wrong place to look for profit as you clearly indicated you wish to get out of this, otherwise your posts are wildly contradicting.

Spring should stay free in it's entirety, Auto-Updating would be nice, yes, but it's definitly not necesary and probably not that hard to implement, I do agree Spring needs to be centralized, have multiplayer and single player functions in a nice GUI instead of the current Lobby and Single player "do you want to be server" kind of deal, but this is ONLY because SRRING IS still a Beta.

Trust me, I can't even afford to spend 20 dollars/euros on my self per month, I am not rich at all, still I produce free content for others that have the same problem.

That's exactly the reason I never started playing a MORPG since it just cost too much for me, i'm usually broke before the half of the month is around, I simply don't have the time either.

If Spring reaches an initial release, some elite-ish functions might be introduced like a special membership with special priviledges, kind of like Soldat did, you will have functions in the registered version that are nice to have like an internal MP3 player and new colors you can give to your jetpack flame, nothing you don't need for playing the game but still neat things that distinguise people who pay for the project and not.

I would much rather encourage that, kinda reward people for donating, but as the SY's have stated, Spring is intended to be free, not until THEY SEE FIT will any thought of charging arise, SJ made this project, he started way back in 2001 on this and is finally getting it off the ground as something playable, you merely came walking in asking if we needed help, sure we agree for some help, but we didn't intend in paying for it.

If anyone really should be payed it should be the following people:

-Atari for using their content, atleast if you don't own the orignal game.
-SJ for his hard work and dedication
-Caydr for his hard work on AA
-Me and Maestro for our work on TA:WD
-Savant and Longbow for TA:FF
etc, etc.

Infact, the reward SJ got was a contract with a major developer, same for others in the SY team, that was their payment, they didn't expect anything else, they made a name for them selves in the game industry, not by selling it, no, Spring is their RESUME, it should be the Resume for anyone that works on it plain and simple.

I still stand by the idea that Spring should be 100% free along with the services it provides.

If Spring needs help, i'll learn to program and i'll help out the devs out here for free, i'm a creative problem solver and i'm sure I could help with many things.

man this post is spiralling out of control already, hope I made my point, but I fully object against anything being charged for Spring, if we start charging for it the following will happen:

EA will become interested or any other major development group, pay a million or 2 for it and sell it them selves, the game will probably not support the community as it does now and die.

Kinda like Counterstrike but not really, atleast counterstrike kept supporting the community, but not under the original vision of the developers.

We don't need payment for some elleborate update service, some fancy scripting language or some flashy interface, we can make it our selves in time, Spring will KILL any competion as the best FREE and is say FREE RTS out there and it will be around BECAUSE it's free, if it's free it will draw more people to it and so more fame to the programmers and the mod makers.

Our payment will be a job at a major big paying company which we can build a carreer in, and maybe some day our own company.

Our payment will be donations, either it being paypal or what not.

Our payment will be major companies wanting to use our engine on their titles which they pay for, but the grounds of Spring should alsways be free, ESSPECIALLY TA:Spring.

Simply put I will not and cannot pay for Spring, but when i'm able to I will donate when I have the resources.

[Kuroneko]

Trust me, I can't even afford to spend 20 dollars/euros on my self per month, I am not rich at all, still I produce free content for others that have the same problem.

That's exactly the reason I never started playing a MORPG since it just cost too much for me, i'm usually broke before the half of the month is around, I simply don't have the time either.

If anyone really should be payed it should be the following people:

-Atari for using their content, atleast if you don't own the orignal game.
-SJ for his hard work and dedication
-Caydr for his hard work on AA
-Me and Maestro for our work on TA:WD
-Savant and Longbow for TA:FF
etc, etc.

I still stand by the idea that Spring should be 100% free along with the services it provides.

We don't need payment for some elleborate update service, some fancy scripting language or some flashy interface, we can make it our selves in time, Spring will KILL any competion as the best FREE and is say FREE RTS out there and it will be around BECAUSE it's free, if it's free it will draw more people to it and so more fame to the programmers and the mod makers.

[[K.B.] Napalm Cobra]

Perhaps someone with an artistic flair could design various medals for different contributors, ie one for modders, one for base coders, one for third party app developers, and so forth. Then have them displayed in their signatures or on the lobby?

[dj_oldfield]

deep thoughts by ground_Zero... who seemingly has an opinion about a posting that he obviously did not read.

[GrOuNd_ZeRo]

Like other said, you posted so much it's hard to digest all of it.

So tell us clearly in a FEW sentences, what do you invision?

I'm sure this could be a misunderstanding, but this is what I gathered from your lengthy posts.

[dj_oldfield]

this was as clearly as I could post it... after 3 attempts to rephrase... most people are actually seeming to get it now... so apparently this was clear enough for them.

Even after the edit... there is still a lot of confusion...

Although it is pointless... I am going to lay it out one more time... simply and cleancut... then whatever people think... they think.

1. profiting / acquiring money / etc.
The game is currently free and should remain that way. I have never suggested nor thought otherwise. I am happy with that idea, and I think that it demonstrates the best that our information sharing technology has achieved.

2. Stealing ideas
I admit that there is a deffinate chance that other people have posted simular or the same ideas that I have brought... in whole or in part. It is obvious that many of you haven't read all of this very thread, so what makes people like mongus think that I have read all of the messages in the entire message board? In any case... I have not reproduced arguements nor ideas that I have read anywhere else (not on this site or any other). If I was bringing up blueprints to build a nuclear reactor that were simular to the blueprints of another... that is one thing... but if I am presenting a vague idea of a level that I believe is achievable for this software... then perhaps one, many, or all other users have thought of the same thing. That is only coincidence or the mind persuing an avenue... nothing more.

3. an accurate representation of what I am thinking by mongus

-An independent Spring engine, separated of what is TASpring.
Aimed in a more "general 3d engine" fashion.
This should be capable of turning spring into a: RPG, FPS, MMORPG(??!)

-A "suite" of applications for creating and edditing content.
This are capable of modifying, rules?, guis, unit "definitions"..
All this supported by new "scripting"...

-An "advanced" game server. (ala battle.net).
Maybe involving rankings, championship generator, some other features.
This is the way to "distribute" "new games" made by the "suite".
Suppose you are thinking about maps and mods too.

When taking baby steps, some things take on a life of their own. If each piece can opperate independantly... you might find more programmers stepping forward to extend it's potential. I imagine that it would be a very long time before the engine actually graduates to this level... but for it to be achievable... the software must become more compartmentalized... whereby it would not be neccessary to compile the entire application with the new components... but instead... it would be possible to write libraries for the engine and link them in with a configuration script. This way, people don't have to download a new version so often... but instead... each game installer can add it's own updates.

4. Multiplayer / community portal
The idea behind this is to turn spring into more of a client instead of an http address. A system that would enable a user to stay connected, up to date, and always playing without having to do multiple installs or jump through hoops.

EDIT:
Since I already see this coming... I will clarify...
My thoughts are that Spring would endure a lot of revisions, updates, and versioning if this game were more of an engine with many games to play on it. Therefore... the HOOPS I am refering too... are insuring that everything is installed correctly, and all of the needed components are available. I am waiting for someone to come back and tell me "THERE IS A WINDOWS BINARY INSTALLER ...."... so I can say WELL DUHHHH! It would be nice to avoid what happened to web browser technology over the first ten years if you don't mind!
END EDIT

For me personally... as do many of you I am sure... even having to compile or perhaps run from command prompt to play a game is fine... but I would like to see this available to those who aren't that litterate. A system where... installing once... this program would handle everything for them... connect to lobbies... display all of the games... download automatically any new libraries needed to run... etc.

Such a client as this would have a larger future, beyond this... however everything must begin somewhere. Any profit I could possibly anticipate this program generating as a result of it's inception would likely be on a corporate scale... as it is good the way that it is. It will (however) require some funding from some avenue to be able to support the growth and possibility. I suggested one way that I felt would be fare... and in said spirit... I myself would be willing to pay a small amount for an anual membership... even with the option to download and use for free.

FINAL NOTE
Information is a wonderful thing... especially over a vast network of computers... but lets not forget the true purose of the Internet. The purpose is not to download pirated games and movies, nor free games and movies... these are just primative uses. The real purpose is taking place on this forum. It creates a community that includes more then one's own neighborhood. The largest part of what I hoped to accomplish... was to build a community around something that would be worth interacting with. A web browser is quite limited in that way... and playing the same online games repeatedly is not much help either.... but something dynamic... something that could introduce a limitless number of ways to interact... and a limitless number of games... That would really be something.

Now I recognize that these dreams are a bit steep. I also realize that it seems that Spring is getting lost at some point... when it becomes something completely diifferent. In my childhood, my uncle once told me... shoot for the stars... and you never know how far you might go. Why not set the highest goal possible for Spring... and see how far it really can go? Wasn't that the intention all along? If there are any financial limitations... well... lets just work together as a community and find a solution that everyone agrees on.

[SwiftSpear]

I think it was stated pretty clearly at one point that we wouldn't even be paying developers with any incoming cash flow. The income would be put back into the comunity, be it via prizes for competitions, prizes for standards of excellence in the mod development comunity, or simply run of the mill server costs. Of course if the comunity just grew in leaps and bounds it's possible that incomes would become so large that there would be little option but to start a web company out of TAS, but that is so far down the road it's hardly worth talking about right now.

[dj_oldfield]

Thank you SwiftSpear. I was kind of tired of taking the defensive... I am glad that someone else rose to the challenge.

[Masse]

money has allways been an issue... better if no one ever mentions money... if u mention it... u better beware $$$ ├óÔÇÜ┬¼├óÔÇÜ┬¼├óÔÇÜ┬¼

i just want spring to become huge and what needs to be changed to that happen... is GUI... my friends wont even try spring until the new gui is done

[el_muchacho]

I would much rather encourage that, kinda reward people for donating, but as the SY's have stated, Spring is intended to be free, not until THEY SEE FIT will any thought of charging arise, SJ made this project, he started way back in 2001 on this and is finally getting it off the ground as something playable, you merely came walking in asking if we needed help, sure we agree for some help, but we didn't intend in paying for it.

If anyone really should be payed it should be the following people:

-Atari for using their content, atleast if you don't own the orignal game.
-SJ for his hard work and dedication
-Caydr for his hard work on AA
-Me and Maestro for our work on TA:WD
-Savant and Longbow for TA:FF
etc, etc.

Infact, the reward SJ got was a contract with a major developer, same for others in the SY team, that was their payment, they didn't expect anything else, they made a name for them selves in the game industry, not by selling it, no, Spring is their RESUME, it should be the Resume for anyone that works on it plain and simple.

I totally second that. You beat me to it. I believe if someone could have decided to start a company around Spring (like the MySQL company for example), it's SJ and Fnordia, and noone else.

[raikitsune]

DJ, let me state some things here.

-In the beginning, EVERYTHING on the Internet was free, not until Id Software produced their first Shareware game did selling software on the internet start, Many people miss the inocent time that we could just post something WE made on the net for everyone for free, the corporate bastards that wa........ etc

Here here GZ while i would donate to spring (if i had the ability curses to my lack of bank accounts/money) however i would not pay for it based on the principle that it was developed as a free game and one of the reasons its so good is that its a free game.

Money is dead
Long live the Free!

[dj_oldfield]

not certain that I disagree with them... just doesnt have anything to do with anything that I have said.

If they want to grumble about who does and doesnt deserve to get "paid"... they are more then free to do so. I am not the ideal candidate to argue with such things.

Can't say that everything should be free... but I deffinately think that Spring should be.

[dj_oldfield]

did you ever notice that people posting such complaints as those... don't seem to have any quot from me that they are arguing with? That's because I never said anything that would neccessitate such an arguement.

[Kuroneko]

did you ever notice that people posting such complaints as those... don't seem to have any quot from me that they are arguing with? That's because I never said anything that would neccessitate such an arguement.

A small membership fee ($2 - $3/month) will enable this game to be backed by a solid network and to achieve the potential that it deserves.

charge some anual membership to use the multiplayer servers to support the maintainence (like $24/yr.)

Yup those posts about the money had nothing to do with what you said.

[dj_oldfield]

very good...


Consider the following:

There are various ways to pay for servers and network usage.
You can charge for membership.
Or you can host banners, or ...

if you were ignorant enough only to read the second of those three sentances... then that is your problem.

I claim no responsibilty for the mass ignorance on this thread!

[Kuroneko]

Consider the following:

There are various ways to pay for servers and network usage.
You can charge for membership.
Or you can host banners

Then say that.

[dj_oldfield]

I did.

[NOiZE]

now if any1 would get started on the GUI we might get somewhere

[Kuroneko]

now if any1 would get started on the GUI we might get somewhere

Someone was working on the gui...what happened to them?

[NOiZE]

they stopped

so atm nobody is working on it!!