Spring 0.80.5.1 bugfix release

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

mmhh ... with 0.80.5-71 no crashes ....
Mod Revelation_R60 ( iknow - not all AI┬┤s play this nice ..)
Map BarracudaBay
AI AAI runs fine and with low CPU usage
RAI runs fine too and with roughly the same cpu usage
KAKI runs nice too and is the best with ground fights and use ca. 1,5 time the cpu usage of AAI
NTai runs nice (but dont fight good ) but use 5-6 Times the cpu usage from AAI
E323AI runs good (but make not so good things) BUT use 60! Times the cpu usage of AAI (ca. 10 Times the NTai usage ..)

and -> the ATI refractive bug is still present.
(no drawing from units under Water)

Regards
R-TEAM

[bartvbl]

E323AI is still under heavy development, so no wonder it is not optimised yet. It has had some major boosts in performance lately, so be sure to check its thread for an update (perhaps you have an older version (?))

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

E323AI is still under heavy development, so no wonder it is not optimised yet. It has had some major boosts in performance lately, so be sure to check its thread for an update (perhaps you have an older version (?))

was the first time i testet E323AI and it run to end.(not crashing)
V2.13.5 - IMHO ATM the latest version ...

I know it is not well optimized,musst going first before running
But is on a good way i think.

In the AI discreption it would be nice to know that KAKI is very strong,but only on ground attack - no water and no Air.

Dont know if NTai or E323AI support water/Air fight,it was defatet
with only T1 kbot and Vhcl labs ...

AAI and RAI uses Water/Air well...(more or less )

So a user dont waste time with an AI that fail on water ...

Regards
R-TEAM

[bartvbl]

was the first time i testet E323AI and it run to end.(not crashing)
V2.13.5 - IMHO ATM the latest version ...

I know it is not well optimized,musst going first before running
But is on a good way i think.

It certainly is! In the tests it has beaten KAIK, so it will (hopefully) when optimised prove to be far better than the good old KAIK

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

would suggest to give the AI text more informations:

AAI
Plays nice but not Fast,use ground+air and Hovercrafts well.
Use not in General water units (except defence by random and
amphib units).Use sometimes smart moves but need Time to grow.
CPU usage 1.0 , scales nice with unit number grow.
NOTE -> need config file and to better play MANY learning Games ..

RAI
Plays nice but not Fast,use ground+air+Hovercrafts AND Ships well.
Use smart moves and handles T2+ well.Need because the wide unit range (ground/air/Water)a good amount of time to grow.
(on maps without Water less time logical ..)
CPU usage 1.0 , scales nice with unit number grow.

KAKI
Plays extreme Fast by ONLY use ground units.Spam a mass of builder and so later mass units.
Use NOT water units (except random amphib units) NOT AIR and not Hovercraft in General.Use no realy smart moves and his strenght come from his ultimat mass-unit-spaming.Handler up to T2 well but only Units.
CPU usage 1.5 , scales nice with unit number grow.(and it grows VERY)
NOTE -> Play only a couple of TA based mods well.

NTai
Plays nice but not Fast,use ground+air well.
Use not in General water/Hovercraft units (except defence by random and amphib units) Make sometime smart moves and Handles T2+ well.
Need medium Time to grow.
CPU usage 5-6 , scales to 8-10 with unit number grow.
NOTE -> Play only a couple of TA based mods well.

E323AI
Plays nice but not Fast,use ground not bad.
CPU usage 50-60 , scale amount unknow.
NOTE -> Play only a couple of TA based mods well.

HughAI
Plays nice but not Fast,use ground well.
CPU usage 2.0 , scale amount unknow.
NOTE -> Play only BA mod well.

Regards
R-TEAM

PS.:Nice to see that replay with AIs and even only AIs work now well!
Thanks to the devs and i hope it is now closer to Save/Load....

[Master-Athmos]

KAKI
Plays extreme Fast by ONLY use ground units.Spam a mass of builder and so later mass units.

Actually not really true. KAIK does "use" air units but only in lategame and well it doesn't really "use" them but builds a bomber or fighter now and then and puts them on stupid patrol routes...

[smoth]

Hi,

would suggest to give the AI text more informations:

- - -bunch of crap. - - -

- - -bunch of crap. - - -

- - -bunch of crap. - - -

except that is mod specific.

[zwzsg]

NTai
[..]
Play only a couple of TA based mods well.

NTai plays KP well and KP is not a TA based mod.

[jamerlan]

I have annoying bug with Alt+Tab on windows XP with nvidia 8600 GT. It reproducible on 0.80.5.0 and on 0.80.5.1 too.

Is it known bug? Any solutions?

Please take a look at screenshots:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7005/screen000.png
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5848/screen002.png
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7164/screen003.png

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

@Master-Athmos
Thanks to clarify,so the "..(except random amphib.." musst better show
->Use NOT Water/Air/Hovercraft units (except random build with stupid,
not usefull orders)

@smoth

well, basicaly you are right, but it is a better discreption as ATM,give the player an hint over the abilitys of the AI,and -sorry-, its dont have
hundred of different mods nowdays!
It gives the TA based,Gundam,KP,S44 - thats all!
Ta based and simmilar (with mex usage and T1->T2 -> T3 ... factory buildings) are most the same.(except the new project Anhalition that uses reserch center to get T1/T2.. and no actual AI knowing this ..)
Gundam play not one AI, except the inbuilt.
KP play the inbuilt and (thanks for clarify zwzsg) NTai.
And S44 play only the inbuilt.

So i see your argument as not much Valid...

@zwzsg

Thanks.(play only a little KP,but it is great feeling)

Regards
R-TEAM

[hoijui]

we should move further AI specific talk to a thread in the AI forum (open a new one if you cant fine one that fits).

[smoth]

So i see your argument as not much Valid...

Because not everything in spring revolves around TA. It is denigrating to have our projects treated as second status to the TA projects. If anything it should be up to the TA projects to suggest an AI. Not the ai descriptions to prattle on about how good the ai plays the TA mods. Doing so seems to slight the non-TA projects and tell players, yeah you can play these but look at all the ais that you will not get to play against.

you need to think more about what spring is. It isn't TA2 + some games. It is an engine.

[hoijui]

aehm.. no smoth.
this is an open source project, and soeone doing an AI can describe it as he wants it described, plus.. it makes absoluetly no sense, your argument, in so many ways.
eg, ZAI does not support your mod, so it is best for the user and for your mod if the user is infromed about the AI. plus what you actually say is that mods are more imprtant then AI, even doh you use other wording. there is absolutely no valid argument for keeping users uninformed.

[Pxtl]

Either way, the very first piece of information about the AIs should be what major mods it is known to support... at least until the API improves such that non-supported AI/Mod combinations are completely hidden from the user. The current approach with AIs is to pick one at random and then watch them barf error text and possibly crash the game once it boots up.

And Smoth, that's not wholly fair. It's not that non-*A mods are second class citizens... there are plenty of *A mods that get treated like crap too.

Spring is BA and fark everybody else.

[smoth]

aehm.. no smoth.
this is an open source project, and soeone doing an AI can describe it as he wants it described, plus.. it makes absoluetly no sense, your argument, in so many ways.

That isn't his AI. If it was his ai and he wrote this ai is meant to be used with TA based projects I wouldn't give a fuck.

eg, ZAI does not support your mod, so it is best for the user and for your mod if the user is infromed about the AI. plus what you actually say is that mods are more imprtant then AI, even doh you use other wording. there is absolutely no valid argument for keeping users uninformed.

It isn't about keeping users uninformed it is about his rating of the ai being based on whatever specific ta mod. So someone goes and tries to play gundam with it and wonders why it cannot hack it at gundam. Well he then reads well these ais all only talk about TA further reinforcing the "spring is TA 2" mentality.

I don't know where you seem to think I have no concept of what open source is or that I somehow think I should dictate anything to the ai guys. In my mind the ai guys are off doing their own thing, it is too early for any of them to try and support gundam. So I really don't give a care about what is going on in the ai forum. I simply do not want the spring docs to exalt the ta projects.

[smoth]

And Smoth, that's not wholly fair. It's not that non-*A mods are second class citizens... there are plenty of *A mods that get treated like crap too.

SA got what it deserved.

XTA is liked

CA is liked

BA is the primary mod

NOTA is liked

BOTA is liked

FUNTA became evoRTS.

your point?

[hoijui]

ok...
please smoth, give me your ratings of the AIs, i will include it in the descriptions (i mean for your mod, and possibly others if you can).
keep in mind though, that E323AI, HughAI and NTai are submodules to which i have no commit access. though, i could propose descriptions to their authors, but it had to be good for me to consider doing that .
We could try adding more and more info to the descriptions, and see what happens, eg. users may suggest changing the description, or some info proves to be worthless, ...

thanks R-Team for the descriptions!
i changed them (mostly language) and committed to master in:
6670c4371bcfb99b7fd069bdeb38dc17bfeb7d28
(AAI, RAI and KAIK only)

Thanks to the devs and i hope it is now closer to Save/Load....

Save/Load is still as far as it was a few months ago, and nobody is actively working on it. it is neither a primary goal of any devs agenda.
Someone, i think it was zwzsg, did a Lua Gadget for Load/Save, but as much as i know, it only works for Lua AIs.

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

ok...
please smoth, give me your ratings of the AIs, i will include it in the descriptions (i mean for your mod, and possibly others if you can).
keep in mind though, that E323AI, HughAI and NTai are submodules to which i have no commit access. though, i could propose descriptions to their authors, but it had to be good for me to consider doing that .
We could try adding more and more info to the descriptions, and see what happens, eg. users may suggest changing the description, or some info proves to be worthless, ...

thanks R-Team for the descriptions!
i changed them (mostly language) and committed to master in:
6670c4371bcfb99b7fd069bdeb38dc17bfeb7d28
(AAI, RAI and KAIK only)

Thanks to the devs and i hope it is now closer to Save/Load....

Save/Load is still as far as it was a few months ago, and nobody is actively working on it. it is neither a primary goal of any devs agenda.
Someone, i think it was zwzsg, did a Lua Gadget for Load/Save, but as much as i know, it only works for Lua AIs.

Thanks - and i think already over a better discription (with pro/cons
list) and hope for more user that give hints.Have not the time to test
100% perfect.It is ALWAYS a "At The Moment i know and have seen"
status.(and i know my english is not good -Thanks too- )

HughAI and E323Ai have crashed so i musst wait for more stabel versions to test long games and the behavor with many units and the usage of T2 and up ...
NTai runs long time good but then it crashes later ingame ...

Sad to hear that load/save is still not a goal for the devs.
One of the important points "I" (and many of my friends that have work
and family ..) see that spring is not growing ...

and -> will open a new thread in the AI sub-forum for my new suggestions AI relatet if it finished

Regards
R-TEAM

[zwzsg]

Someone, i think it was zwzsg, did a Lua Gadget for Load/Save, but as much as i know, it only works for Lua AIs.

It only works with AI that don't mind being given a hugelot of units at the start of game. It also has a problem with unit that are under construction at the time of saving, as there is no hook to force assign a cons or a factory to a nanoframe. In mods where you can assist, it may somewhat work though. Also my code doesn't know how to save and restore all the queued commands. And anway, that gadget is in Kernel Panic with a code that isn't so easy to cleanly cut and extract.

Apparently someone made a widget based on the same principles, not a proper savegame but worth a try maybe?

[bartvbl]

Actually not really true. KAIK does "use" air units but only in lategame and well it doesn't really "use" them but builds a bomber or fighter now and then and puts them on stupid patrol routes...

well, at some point it makes them attack, but then it will just stack them up after that attack without attacking a second time with them. So in the end, when you are attacking KAIK, you will find a whole bunch of bombers stacked together on the ground somewhere, waiting to be sent at you