What if we took this one level higher...
Moderator: Moderators
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Honestly, in many ways alot of DJO's ideas are really good and they make alot of sense. If spring gets really popular it just kindof logically proceeds that the website and comunity becomes a full fledged .com business. The thing is most people don't have the slightest clue how a .com business works, and the post really did sounds like you were asking for a pay to play system. And that kind of thing just doesn't work with an open source project. I personally think it's great that you have high expectations for what spring will one day be able to do. Honestly I personally have alot of things I would like to see in spring that are just impossible with the current system, and I think more open systems could be VERY valuble to players and modders alike.
Hm.
I dont know, Swiftspear, but to me DJ-O sounds like a consultant.
Letting other people do the legwork and comming late to an etablished project and then trying to distinguish himself by ripping it from the base it grew from and trying to warp it into something it really isnt.
Usually failure will result in a wrecked project and the consultant hopping to the next.
I dont know, Swiftspear, but to me DJ-O sounds like a consultant.
Letting other people do the legwork and comming late to an etablished project and then trying to distinguish himself by ripping it from the base it grew from and trying to warp it into something it really isnt.
Usually failure will result in a wrecked project and the consultant hopping to the next.
DJOldfield.
First seperate your ideas. You ahve a habit of spurring off laods of them in a set of large paragraphs in a new thread. Seperate them itno seperate ideas and post them in seperate threads, then start another thread that ties them altogether.
This si resulting in very longwinded posts, and your lognwidned posts are being misinterpreted badly and confused and befuddling.
If you need money to do ti then your design is flawed and you need to innovate.
The onyl valid part fo spring where money would come in is donations and licensing out for commercial projects.
So give up the the thought, and give your other dieas a chance before they get destroyed by the money fiasco.
First seperate your ideas. You ahve a habit of spurring off laods of them in a set of large paragraphs in a new thread. Seperate them itno seperate ideas and post them in seperate threads, then start another thread that ties them altogether.
This si resulting in very longwinded posts, and your lognwidned posts are being misinterpreted badly and confused and befuddling.
If you need money to do ti then your design is flawed and you need to innovate.
The onyl valid part fo spring where money would come in is donations and licensing out for commercial projects.
So give up the the thought, and give your other dieas a chance before they get destroyed by the money fiasco.
dj_oldfield
yhe I read the whole lot. I didn't have long to post, however I was agreeing with
Sure it would be nice if people that did work got money, but seeing as there doing it for free its hardly somthing important.
And dont say anything along teh lines of "well you arn't a developer so how would you know" because lots of other people make contributions in other ways like Map making, Image work, AI's. What about them? Is it fair that they dont get anything for there work either?
Bottom line is, if you can make somthing this good and free, why the hell would we wanna make it comercial (in anyway...) plus people would want to know were the money was going, howmuch goes to teh dev's how much to the running of the servers ect...
anyway ill reply with more arguments aginst as an when you get back to me on this. I like discussion, and I'm not unresonable so please try and purswade me.
aGorm
yhe I read the whole lot. I didn't have long to post, however I was agreeing with
At the moment this needs to be free whatever happens. Its to early for you "Spring sever hosting whatsit" idea at the mo. And as someone said, why if you could still use the free one?In any case, it's much too early for any of this talk.
Sure it would be nice if people that did work got money, but seeing as there doing it for free its hardly somthing important.
And dont say anything along teh lines of "well you arn't a developer so how would you know" because lots of other people make contributions in other ways like Map making, Image work, AI's. What about them? Is it fair that they dont get anything for there work either?
Bottom line is, if you can make somthing this good and free, why the hell would we wanna make it comercial (in anyway...) plus people would want to know were the money was going, howmuch goes to teh dev's how much to the running of the servers ect...
anyway ill reply with more arguments aginst as an when you get back to me on this. I like discussion, and I'm not unresonable so please try and purswade me.
aGorm
Most important, is the fact he has stealed all the ideas from what this game currently is and to what it is currently aimed to.
It has been stated already by the developers that this game, TASpring, is just a branch of an underlying project, that is Spring engine.
It is most evident that, this underlying engine, will not be as closely related to TA, as TASpring is, and thus, many many deeply rooted functions and stuff (bluffing there) must be relativized, that is made more general aimed rather than aimed specifically for TA.
Is, also, evident that, this underlying engine, in order to be successfully developed needs a good set of editting sofware, as any major game out there has.
The goal of a bigger/better/cooler community-server, with... loads the nicest features we see in many other.. game servers, is not anything out of the evident any online gamer would like.
That and many other things that he has said, are being around since long time in this forums and in projects like ign?, phoenix works, and in the wish lists of many of us i venture.
The fact this guy comes out of nowhere with its "higher level" stuff (good word to use here , level), and want to sell us back our desires and wishes, repackaged into a "we must pay for my superb plan for this to be good, really!" as if any of this belonged to him in the first place, is disgustting to say the least.
I could extent to no limits realizing how, he is taking advantage of the situation here.
Lets assume all this he has said here is due to his ignorance of the game, and a "comercially biased" mind, and not, due to a deliberate bad intentinated initiative.
Then again, we should all repeat to you dj (and your little friend whoknowshim).
Niether Spring or many of our desires, are for (re?)sale.
It has been stated already by the developers that this game, TASpring, is just a branch of an underlying project, that is Spring engine.
It is most evident that, this underlying engine, will not be as closely related to TA, as TASpring is, and thus, many many deeply rooted functions and stuff (bluffing there) must be relativized, that is made more general aimed rather than aimed specifically for TA.
Is, also, evident that, this underlying engine, in order to be successfully developed needs a good set of editting sofware, as any major game out there has.
The goal of a bigger/better/cooler community-server, with... loads the nicest features we see in many other.. game servers, is not anything out of the evident any online gamer would like.
That and many other things that he has said, are being around since long time in this forums and in projects like ign?, phoenix works, and in the wish lists of many of us i venture.
The fact this guy comes out of nowhere with its "higher level" stuff (good word to use here , level), and want to sell us back our desires and wishes, repackaged into a "we must pay for my superb plan for this to be good, really!" as if any of this belonged to him in the first place, is disgustting to say the least.
I could extent to no limits realizing how, he is taking advantage of the situation here.
Lets assume all this he has said here is due to his ignorance of the game, and a "comercially biased" mind, and not, due to a deliberate bad intentinated initiative.
Then again, we should all repeat to you dj (and your little friend whoknowshim).
Niether Spring or many of our desires, are for (re?)sale.
What are you people so frustrated about? If dj_oldfield sees a way to make money from this software, then let him do it. You have noted yourself that this is impossible through the same kind of setup we have today (because it is free and fulfills all multiplayer needs when it comes to TA mods). This is GPL software, so any improvement he will do can be used in spring if that would be needed.
And ideas being stolen? please, ideas are worth nothing, it's the end product that counts. If all these ideas are really so commercially viable, we would've been ripped off by EA by now.
And ideas being stolen? please, ideas are worth nothing, it's the end product that counts. If all these ideas are really so commercially viable, we would've been ripped off by EA by now.
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el_muchacho
- Posts: 201
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:06
I remember at the beginning, the SY's were not sure whether they would release the source code of the Spring engine under GPL. Thank God, and thank them first and foremost, they did. We are all grateful to them for that.
Now dj_o perfectly has the right to make his own game or game factory out of the Spring engine, and do whatever pleases him with it, but at the sole condition his bugfixes and improvements to the engine shall be available to the community. If he fails to comply to this requirement, I bet it won't be long before someone (SJ himself, I guess) discovers the cheat and stops him. Anyway, he talked about releasing the result in open source, so I believe he is not willing to make closed source developments.
But if he wants to make another game with other units, graphics, etc, no problem, taht's cool. He shouldn't count, however, on people doing this work for him for free.
The thing is, when I read his post 1, I feel he hasn't noticed that there is simply not enough programmers available to undertake another task of the same size. Maintaining Spring, improving performance and stability, porting it to Linux, creating an AI, improving the GUI to make it sexier, between many others tasks, is much enough work for the whole community by now. And moreover, he forgets that the community is so active for one reason, which is Spring focuses on the original RTS game TA that was so great. I doubt people would be so enthusistic as to make a new Age of Empires out of the Spring engine.
Now dj_o perfectly has the right to make his own game or game factory out of the Spring engine, and do whatever pleases him with it, but at the sole condition his bugfixes and improvements to the engine shall be available to the community. If he fails to comply to this requirement, I bet it won't be long before someone (SJ himself, I guess) discovers the cheat and stops him. Anyway, he talked about releasing the result in open source, so I believe he is not willing to make closed source developments.
But if he wants to make another game with other units, graphics, etc, no problem, taht's cool. He shouldn't count, however, on people doing this work for him for free.
The thing is, when I read his post 1, I feel he hasn't noticed that there is simply not enough programmers available to undertake another task of the same size. Maintaining Spring, improving performance and stability, porting it to Linux, creating an AI, improving the GUI to make it sexier, between many others tasks, is much enough work for the whole community by now. And moreover, he forgets that the community is so active for one reason, which is Spring focuses on the original RTS game TA that was so great. I doubt people would be so enthusistic as to make a new Age of Empires out of the Spring engine.
Somehow, djoldfield, became with this "next level" idea.
This idea, involves certain things.
Things like:
-An independent Spring engine, separated of what is TASpring.
Aimed in a more "general 3d engine" fashion.
This should be capable of turning spring into a: RPG, FPS, MMORPG(??!)
-A "suite" of applications for creating and edditing content.
This are capable of modifying, rules?, guis, unit "definitions"..
All this supported by new "scripting"...
-An "advanced" game server. (ala battle.net).
Maybe involving rankings, championship generator, some other features.
This is the way to "distribute" "new games" made by the "suite".
Suppose you are thinking about maps and mods too.
-got a bit tired agh, you must order better your thougths.
The profitting part.
you have stated, several times the thing about earning money from this, making money from this, getting payed.. prices...
Who would pay for those Prices?
At some points, you made a bit of sense, .... bc well.. running a btnetesque server thing migth be cpu/traffic intensive.. but.. well
there is Phoenixworks, that, runs for free too.
Indeed, there are lots of examples of free servers for many different games.. so... Its maybe you that have not realized that.
In other posts, you didnt have an argumet, for example, paying for playing agains ppl you dont know!,.. thats not a reason, but you gave it like a valid one.
Its clear you are used to make things work into a "commercial" enviroment, and this game is not about that.
now, the stealing part...
:/
well, it migth not be so clear.. but many of the concepts oldfield has used, where "underlying" spring for a long time and well, he didnt actually "steal" them, bc you cant steal them.. but he "used" them, and mixed them up with this "proffitting" desire he has out of spring.
That is what i call stealing, its wrong i realize.
But, then, its not his proposal, but... dunno.. of all of us.. mixored.. er...
This idea, involves certain things.
Things like:
-An independent Spring engine, separated of what is TASpring.
Aimed in a more "general 3d engine" fashion.
This should be capable of turning spring into a: RPG, FPS, MMORPG(??!)
-A "suite" of applications for creating and edditing content.
This are capable of modifying, rules?, guis, unit "definitions"..
All this supported by new "scripting"...
-An "advanced" game server. (ala battle.net).
Maybe involving rankings, championship generator, some other features.
This is the way to "distribute" "new games" made by the "suite".
Suppose you are thinking about maps and mods too.
-got a bit tired agh, you must order better your thougths.
The profitting part.
you have stated, several times the thing about earning money from this, making money from this, getting payed.. prices...
Who would pay for those Prices?
At some points, you made a bit of sense, .... bc well.. running a btnetesque server thing migth be cpu/traffic intensive.. but.. well
there is Phoenixworks, that, runs for free too.
Indeed, there are lots of examples of free servers for many different games.. so... Its maybe you that have not realized that.
In other posts, you didnt have an argumet, for example, paying for playing agains ppl you dont know!,.. thats not a reason, but you gave it like a valid one.
Its clear you are used to make things work into a "commercial" enviroment, and this game is not about that.
now, the stealing part...
:/
well, it migth not be so clear.. but many of the concepts oldfield has used, where "underlying" spring for a long time and well, he didnt actually "steal" them, bc you cant steal them.. but he "used" them, and mixed them up with this "proffitting" desire he has out of spring.
That is what i call stealing, its wrong i realize.
But, then, its not his proposal, but... dunno.. of all of us.. mixored.. er...
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
hmmmmmmm
Even after the edit... there is still a lot of confusion...
Although it is pointless... I am going to lay it out one more time... simply and cleancut... then whatever people think... they think.
1. profiting / acquiring money / etc.
The game is currently free and should remain that way. I have never suggested nor thought otherwise. I am happy with that idea, and I think that it demonstrates the best that our information sharing technology has achieved.
2. Stealing ideas
I admit that there is a deffinate chance that other people have posted simular or the same ideas that I have brought... in whole or in part. It is obvious that many of you haven't read all of this very thread, so what makes people like mongus think that I have read all of the messages in the entire message board? In any case... I have not reproduced arguements nor ideas that I have read anywhere else (not on this site or any other). If I was bringing up blueprints to build a nuclear reactor that were simular to the blueprints of another... that is one thing... but if I am presenting a vague idea of a level that I believe is achievable for this software... then perhaps one, many, or all other users have thought of the same thing. That is only coincidence or the mind persuing an avenue... nothing more.
3. an accurate representation of what I am thinking by mongus
4. Multiplayer / community portal
The idea behind this is to turn spring into more of a client instead of an http address. A system that would enable a user to stay connected, up to date, and always playing without having to do multiple installs or jump through hoops.
EDIT:
Since I already see this coming... I will clarify...
My thoughts are that Spring would endure a lot of revisions, updates, and versioning if this game were more of an engine with many games to play on it. Therefore... the HOOPS I am refering too... are insuring that everything is installed correctly, and all of the needed components are available. I am waiting for someone to come back and tell me "THERE IS A WINDOWS BINARY INSTALLER ...."... so I can say WELL DUHHHH! It would be nice to avoid what happened to web browser technology over the first ten years if you don't mind!
END EDIT
For me personally... as do many of you I am sure... even having to compile or perhaps run from command prompt to play a game is fine... but I would like to see this available to those who aren't that litterate. A system where... installing once... this program would handle everything for them... connect to lobbies... display all of the games... download automatically any new libraries needed to run... etc.
Such a client as this would have a larger future, beyond this... however everything must begin somewhere. Any profit I could possibly anticipate this program generating as a result of it's inception would likely be on a corporate scale... as it is good the way that it is. It will (however) require some funding from some avenue to be able to support the growth and possibility. I suggested one way that I felt would be fare... and in said spirit... I myself would be willing to pay a small amount for an anual membership... even with the option to download and use for free.
FINAL NOTE
Information is a wonderful thing... especially over a vast network of computers... but lets not forget the true purose of the Internet. The purpose is not to download pirated games and movies, nor free games and movies... these are just primative uses. The real purpose is taking place on this forum. It creates a community that includes more then one's own neighborhood. The largest part of what I hoped to accomplish... was to build a community around something that would be worth interacting with. A web browser is quite limited in that way... and playing the same online games repeatedly is not much help either.... but something dynamic... something that could introduce a limitless number of ways to interact... and a limitless number of games... That would really be something.
Now I recognize that these dreams are a bit steep. I also realize that it seems that Spring is getting lost at some point... when it becomes something completely diifferent. In my childhood, my uncle once told me... shoot for the stars... and you never know how far you might go. Why not set the highest goal possible for Spring... and see how far it really can go? Wasn't that the intention all along? If there are any financial limitations... well... lets just work together as a community and find a solution that everyone agrees on.
Although it is pointless... I am going to lay it out one more time... simply and cleancut... then whatever people think... they think.
1. profiting / acquiring money / etc.
The game is currently free and should remain that way. I have never suggested nor thought otherwise. I am happy with that idea, and I think that it demonstrates the best that our information sharing technology has achieved.
2. Stealing ideas
I admit that there is a deffinate chance that other people have posted simular or the same ideas that I have brought... in whole or in part. It is obvious that many of you haven't read all of this very thread, so what makes people like mongus think that I have read all of the messages in the entire message board? In any case... I have not reproduced arguements nor ideas that I have read anywhere else (not on this site or any other). If I was bringing up blueprints to build a nuclear reactor that were simular to the blueprints of another... that is one thing... but if I am presenting a vague idea of a level that I believe is achievable for this software... then perhaps one, many, or all other users have thought of the same thing. That is only coincidence or the mind persuing an avenue... nothing more.
3. an accurate representation of what I am thinking by mongus
When taking baby steps, some things take on a life of their own. If each piece can opperate independantly... you might find more programmers stepping forward to extend it's potential. I imagine that it would be a very long time before the engine actually graduates to this level... but for it to be achievable... the software must become more compartmentalized... whereby it would not be neccessary to compile the entire application with the new components... but instead... it would be possible to write libraries for the engine and link them in with a configuration script. This way, people don't have to download a new version so often... but instead... each game installer can add it's own updates.-An independent Spring engine, separated of what is TASpring.
Aimed in a more "general 3d engine" fashion.
This should be capable of turning spring into a: RPG, FPS, MMORPG(??!)
-A "suite" of applications for creating and edditing content.
This are capable of modifying, rules?, guis, unit "definitions"..
All this supported by new "scripting"...
-An "advanced" game server. (ala battle.net).
Maybe involving rankings, championship generator, some other features.
This is the way to "distribute" "new games" made by the "suite".
Suppose you are thinking about maps and mods too.
4. Multiplayer / community portal
The idea behind this is to turn spring into more of a client instead of an http address. A system that would enable a user to stay connected, up to date, and always playing without having to do multiple installs or jump through hoops.
EDIT:
Since I already see this coming... I will clarify...
My thoughts are that Spring would endure a lot of revisions, updates, and versioning if this game were more of an engine with many games to play on it. Therefore... the HOOPS I am refering too... are insuring that everything is installed correctly, and all of the needed components are available. I am waiting for someone to come back and tell me "THERE IS A WINDOWS BINARY INSTALLER ...."... so I can say WELL DUHHHH! It would be nice to avoid what happened to web browser technology over the first ten years if you don't mind!
END EDIT
For me personally... as do many of you I am sure... even having to compile or perhaps run from command prompt to play a game is fine... but I would like to see this available to those who aren't that litterate. A system where... installing once... this program would handle everything for them... connect to lobbies... display all of the games... download automatically any new libraries needed to run... etc.
Such a client as this would have a larger future, beyond this... however everything must begin somewhere. Any profit I could possibly anticipate this program generating as a result of it's inception would likely be on a corporate scale... as it is good the way that it is. It will (however) require some funding from some avenue to be able to support the growth and possibility. I suggested one way that I felt would be fare... and in said spirit... I myself would be willing to pay a small amount for an anual membership... even with the option to download and use for free.
FINAL NOTE
Information is a wonderful thing... especially over a vast network of computers... but lets not forget the true purose of the Internet. The purpose is not to download pirated games and movies, nor free games and movies... these are just primative uses. The real purpose is taking place on this forum. It creates a community that includes more then one's own neighborhood. The largest part of what I hoped to accomplish... was to build a community around something that would be worth interacting with. A web browser is quite limited in that way... and playing the same online games repeatedly is not much help either.... but something dynamic... something that could introduce a limitless number of ways to interact... and a limitless number of games... That would really be something.
Now I recognize that these dreams are a bit steep. I also realize that it seems that Spring is getting lost at some point... when it becomes something completely diifferent. In my childhood, my uncle once told me... shoot for the stars... and you never know how far you might go. Why not set the highest goal possible for Spring... and see how far it really can go? Wasn't that the intention all along? If there are any financial limitations... well... lets just work together as a community and find a solution that everyone agrees on.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
PROFITEERING???
AND ANOTHER THING!!!
There have been a lot of attacks claiming that I am attempting to profit in one way or another from the existance of Spring, TotalA, or anything. There was a time when I had a datacenter with 12 multiprocessor servers available to handle this... and 6 mbits plugged into them, but that time is not now. My suggestions for fees were not for my own compensation, as I lack the infastructure to support this software within the prestated capacity. All I have is a double-natted internet connection and 7 servers... which I use as a development environment.
Origionally I was thinking how nice this "Client" could be ... and how it could provide a suitable replacement for the already junked up http world... by providing multiple environments and destinations... as well as a virtual community. Then I thought... that requires bandwidth and hardware which costs a great deal of money. Every suggestion I have made relating to money... was suggesting a single (of many) possibility for funding it.
Optionally (for example) the sale of virtual realestate... so to speak... basically stores within the community.... simular to the banner ad marketing. I personally don't like that idea... I have never been much of a fan for such things... but it might work well in this case.
Now... knowing that I suggested an idea which did not involve me being the recipient of any of the funds derived from it... and knowing the scale of what I was thinking... I hope that nobody is stupid enough to continue suggesting that I would be profiteering. Oh well... if they do... I guess that is their problem.
There have been a lot of attacks claiming that I am attempting to profit in one way or another from the existance of Spring, TotalA, or anything. There was a time when I had a datacenter with 12 multiprocessor servers available to handle this... and 6 mbits plugged into them, but that time is not now. My suggestions for fees were not for my own compensation, as I lack the infastructure to support this software within the prestated capacity. All I have is a double-natted internet connection and 7 servers... which I use as a development environment.
Origionally I was thinking how nice this "Client" could be ... and how it could provide a suitable replacement for the already junked up http world... by providing multiple environments and destinations... as well as a virtual community. Then I thought... that requires bandwidth and hardware which costs a great deal of money. Every suggestion I have made relating to money... was suggesting a single (of many) possibility for funding it.
Optionally (for example) the sale of virtual realestate... so to speak... basically stores within the community.... simular to the banner ad marketing. I personally don't like that idea... I have never been much of a fan for such things... but it might work well in this case.
Now... knowing that I suggested an idea which did not involve me being the recipient of any of the funds derived from it... and knowing the scale of what I was thinking... I hope that nobody is stupid enough to continue suggesting that I would be profiteering. Oh well... if they do... I guess that is their problem.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
I like this post!
First off... thank you el_muchacho for not allowing one word in the entire thread dictate your thoughts on this idea. Please note... the response to the "TotalA" comment follows at the end of this message.el_muchacho wrote:I remember at the beginning, the SY's were not sure whether they would release the source code of the Spring engine under GPL. Thank God, and thank them first and foremost, they did. We are all grateful to them for that.
Now dj_o perfectly has the right to make his own game or game factory out of the Spring engine, and do whatever pleases him with it, but at the sole condition his bugfixes and improvements to the engine shall be available to the community. If he fails to comply to this requirement, I bet it won't be long before someone (SJ himself, I guess) discovers the cheat and stops him. Anyway, he talked about releasing the result in open source, so I believe he is not willing to make closed source developments.
But if he wants to make another game with other units, graphics, etc, no problem, taht's cool. He shouldn't count, however, on people doing this work for him for free.
The thing is, when I read his post 1, I feel he hasn't noticed that there is simply not enough programmers available to undertake another task of the same size. Maintaining Spring, improving performance and stability, porting it to Linux, creating an AI, improving the GUI to make it sexier, between many others tasks, is much enough work for the whole community by now. And moreover, he forgets that the community is so active for one reason, which is Spring focuses on the original RTS game TA that was so great. I doubt people would be so enthusistic as to make a new Age of Empires out of the Spring engine.
I myself am a programmer... and now that someone has finally (in one way or another) indicated an interest in the single question that I have been checking this thread for the entire time... I will gladly answer.
The real question here... is HOW? Resources are maxed... and (as a programmer myself) there are many things that stand between this and being finished.
For one thing... soliciting the interest of someone who is use to being paid $50+/hr for their work... that is quite a challenge.
The next thing... we get busy in the "Money Making" aspect of our lives... trying to provide for our families or pay off that new car... so sometimes the things that we take on are not entirely possible.
WHAT I PLAN TO DO WITH SPRING:
I am working with someone else at the moment... although not as actively as I would like because I have been busy finishing another contract.
I intend to provide a standard of implimentation simular to COM for Spring. One which will introduce the ability to start with the core components... and allow for pieces to be changed independantly of the remainder of the Application, as well as a documentation archive for the application.
The entire application would support LUA still... because I have recieved too many remarks about "DONT TAKE IT OUT"... but it would also support another interface... one of my own design.
My code would be built completely seperately... and released under an agreement that it could be used and modified free of charge ONLY WITH THE SPRING APPLICATION... because this code belongs to a far bigger Application that I have spent the majority of the last four years of my life building. This code will enable an extremely powerful scripting engine within the Spring software... and will enable a more flexable and dynamic data architecture.
After releasing this enhancement (provided that the community likes it) it will become more possible for programmers to work on the smaller picture (so to speak) without having to look at the bigger picture... for example... User interface problems could be resolved by quickly writing a library (which includes my standard data-types header file) which can be used "INSTEAD" of existing code. This would work in most cases... preventing us from having to spend a large volume of time getting to know the rest of the Application.
The final release would include source code, revision updates (as needed), documentation, and the scripting syntax documentation. The scripting engine will allow scripts to reach every area of code (that I can link it too anyway)... and will make the datastructure of the application less rigid (fewer places where revisions will be needed). As el_muchacho said... I am building it already... and we will see where it goes from there.
TOTALA COMMENT RESPONSE:
TotalA was one of my favorate games also... but I have little interest in making that the only game that I ever play again. Not to mention... if it is a good product... should't it's potential be truly exploited? Don't you think that you would bring more programmers if there was a project to make fps engine for it? Many programmers like those also... as well as rpg. Me personally... I can play a game nearly obsessively for weeks at a time... but not months. If it is dedicated to a single game, then maybe it is best that it is never finished... because it will do the same thing that other games doo... it will be extremely popular... and eventually... flicker out.
If this engine is portable... it can become a benchmark... an organization... a community... and perhaps spawn many profitbareing opportunities for the creators (NOT RELATED TO THE RETAIL OF GAMES)... who... in my opinion have worked very hard and deserve to make money someday. Please note... I am not included in the statement "the creators"... so there again... I am not trying to make a buck off of this.
I am about to write another post about what I want out of this.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
as promised... the other post
What I want out of all of this
I expect that I will recieve four things out of producing valuable revisions and code for Spring. These things, in my mind, are worth a whole lot more money then any other usage for that alloted amount of time...
1. Recognition commensorate of my contribution... easy enough... and looks good on resumes. If the engine is of good quality... could mean about $20k-$30k salary increase.
2. Experience which can only be gained from a challenging and fun project.
3. Motivation to complete a project that I intend to base all of my income from one day. A product which needs many revisions and updates... which are applicable to both Spring and it.
4. Any entitlements for GPL to work in the reverse... I still intend to OWN the scripting engine, just as the creators of LUA own theirs. If it is used for anything profitbaring, then I must be notified immediately, and compensated accordingly. That is the case with all programs (unless you are actually paying a programmer to build them).
That is my expectation. I do not now (nor have I ever) anticipate nor suggest any other forms of compensation. No comment that I have ever posted on this site suggests otherwise. so please... everyone who wants to post about how I am trying to make money or whatever... save the strength in your fingers to make source code... not to clutter this message boards with messages presenting ignorance to a flaming degree.
That's all for tonight. If I didn't respond to your post... it is because I am burnt out on reading them. Of three pages worth of posts... only one of them actually demonstrates an understanding of my topic... which is more or less my fault.... talking to computers is sometimes easier then talking to people. But now... it should be cleared up. I might read more tomorow... might now. I not very excited to have another headache... so I might postpone for the entire weekend.
I expect that I will recieve four things out of producing valuable revisions and code for Spring. These things, in my mind, are worth a whole lot more money then any other usage for that alloted amount of time...
1. Recognition commensorate of my contribution... easy enough... and looks good on resumes. If the engine is of good quality... could mean about $20k-$30k salary increase.
2. Experience which can only be gained from a challenging and fun project.
3. Motivation to complete a project that I intend to base all of my income from one day. A product which needs many revisions and updates... which are applicable to both Spring and it.
4. Any entitlements for GPL to work in the reverse... I still intend to OWN the scripting engine, just as the creators of LUA own theirs. If it is used for anything profitbaring, then I must be notified immediately, and compensated accordingly. That is the case with all programs (unless you are actually paying a programmer to build them).
That is my expectation. I do not now (nor have I ever) anticipate nor suggest any other forms of compensation. No comment that I have ever posted on this site suggests otherwise. so please... everyone who wants to post about how I am trying to make money or whatever... save the strength in your fingers to make source code... not to clutter this message boards with messages presenting ignorance to a flaming degree.
That's all for tonight. If I didn't respond to your post... it is because I am burnt out on reading them. Of three pages worth of posts... only one of them actually demonstrates an understanding of my topic... which is more or less my fault.... talking to computers is sometimes easier then talking to people. But now... it should be cleared up. I might read more tomorow... might now. I not very excited to have another headache... so I might postpone for the entire weekend.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
you are deffinately correct. My last two posts I think should clear that up though.Alantai Firestar wrote:DJOldfield.
First seperate your ideas. You ahve a habit of spurring off laods of them in a set of large paragraphs in a new thread. Seperate them itno seperate ideas and post them in seperate threads, then start another thread that ties them altogether.
This si resulting in very longwinded posts, and your lognwidned posts are being misinterpreted badly and confused and befuddling.
If you need money to do ti then your design is flawed and you need to innovate.
The onyl valid part fo spring where money would come in is donations and licensing out for commercial projects.
So give up the the thought, and give your other dieas a chance before they get destroyed by the money fiasco.
Does that make more sense then? Less confusing perhaps?
Thanks for your words!
Last edited by dj_oldfield on 12 Nov 2005, 10:52, edited 1 time in total.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
The only way that I see for me to profit... is to make a contribution that is noteworthy... and be able to claim it on my resume. All others that people were thinking... they were mistaken.Zaphod wrote:What are you people so frustrated about? If dj_oldfield sees a way to make money from this software, then let him do it. You have noted yourself that this is impossible through the same kind of setup we have today (because it is free and fulfills all multiplayer needs when it comes to TA mods). This is GPL software, so any improvement he will do can be used in spring if that would be needed.
And ideas being stolen? please, ideas are worth nothing, it's the end product that counts. If all these ideas are really so commercially viable, we would've been ripped off by EA by now.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
Not entirely fair... but deffinately valid.IMSabbel wrote:Hm.
I dont know, Swiftspear, but to me DJ-O sounds like a consultant.
Letting other people do the legwork and comming late to an etablished project and then trying to distinguish himself by ripping it from the base it grew from and trying to warp it into something it really isnt.
Usually failure will result in a wrecked project and the consultant hopping to the next.
Consultants get paid hourly though.
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
Your my new hero! I shall build a statue in your honor!Masse wrote:dj_oldfield didnt say pay to play ? or did i miss some point here ?
maybe ppl here are not reading the whole thing...
or maybe dj_oldfield writes too long things so none ppl has no intrest to read it all...
Honestly... being a programmer though... I do have a tendancy to become very verbose... and I don't blame people for not wanting to read the entirety of my messages. I just wish that I could get people to focus on what I was really talking about... so that I could get some useful feedback... things like:
:we can use this piece seperately as a static libary if you like: or
fix this while you are at it...
or perhaps even...
I tried to compile it that way... but for such and such reason, it did not work.
Anyway... one can dream can't they?