Lobster Network

[SinbadEV]

Hello Friends, This is a lot like SPAM... but not exactly because I have a vested interest in the success of this project.

As you may or may not know, I have recently been laid off. For the majority of the last year my employer has been having trouble finding contracts for us and finally ran out of money and had to let me go. During this "dry" period he had us working on a big secret internal project that kept us all busy and sharpening our skills while his saving slowly dwindled.

If my boss is unable to find more work for us and this project fails then I won't get my job back... however, I believe in this project and would love for it to succeed, my boss to get filthy rich and me get my job back.

so,

LOBSTER NETWORK
( http://www.LobsterNetwork.com/ )

Lobster Network is basically my bosses idea of an "Item Based Social Networking Site"... basically it is supposed to be like going over to your friends place, looking at their book, movie and game shelves and saying "hey, I haven't seen that" and borrowing it... except that the shelves of all your friends are all in a central location and there is an automated system for tracking which items you have lent or borrowed.

There is also the option to list items as for sale or for free, to use "inventory only" and just keep a list of your stuff.

The service is currently free. The idea is that we will try to convince you that our service is awesome and totally worth a few bucks a year within the free year. The idea is that if you borrow one movie a month that would would have bought or rented, you've already saved money.

I am getting no referral bucks from this post and there are no advertisements on the page... at this point we are mostly looking for feedback... so please at least give it a try.

It's mostly designed to work for physical communities (like neighborhoods, schools, offices, churches etc.) so it would be best if you tried to get a group of people to sign up in your area to really take advantage.


also, feel free to discuss the idea and site here... I'd really like to know what you think.

[CarRepairer]

Sounds like a long shot. Maybe I'm not understanding what the point is, I only skimmed the page. After all, buying and selling on craigslist is free. Renting movies is peanuts (five bucks a month for netflix and blockbuster and get DVDs in your mailbox) and still easier than going to some central repository. I don't get it. A bunch of examples might help.

[Petah]

The red interface is yucky... and there is really nothing to do on the site, whats the point?

[SinbadEV]

Sounds like a long shot. Maybe I'm not understanding what the point is, I only skimmed the page. After all, buying and selling on craigslist is free. Renting movies is peanuts (five bucks a month for netflix and blockbuster and get DVDs in your mailbox) and still easier than going to some central repository. I don't get it. A bunch of examples might help.

The "central repository" was a metaphor for "a website that lists what your friends have posted"

The red interface is yucky... and there is really nothing to do on the site, whats the point?

I agree on the interface, I didn't make it, send feedback to the site... they need to hear that.

as far as nothing to do, what do you mean? what do you WANT to do?

[Argh]

Took a look. Here are my thoughts:

1. If item-tracking of borrowers is the goal, for community-based projects, then you need a large enough community that practices enough borrowing to make it worth paying for.

It's a cinch that larger churches might want this, or perhaps small communities that want to try a communal "borrowing" system, but who else? Mennonite communites, etc. perhaps? Schools that want to allow poorer children to borrow valuable supplies, but need an easy way to document it?

I mean, if I loan out a book to somebody, I don't really want to enter it into a system just to keep track of it. Individuals, unless they do a *lot* of lending to others, are unlikely to want this.

Libraries, perhaps, but they've already spent a fortune on systems of their own, and this doesn't look like it's ready to meet their standards yet (although that's a pretty short leap, data-base-wise, and they're worth a fortune if you can get to that target).

Scientific research institutions with physical samples that are rare / precious? Again, there's a market, but again, the standards would have to be met.

So, who's the market for this thing? The business case is unclear.



2. The "Lobster" might have made sense to your boss, but it doesn't make sense to me. The imagery and design are fine... if I was shopping for lobsters online.

The "communal" domains are all for sale. That fits the desired image. Maybe one of the owners is wanting to cut a deal, or become a partner in the enterprise.

Basically, though... I think that you guys need to write a business plan that is specific and practical, and seek capital.

You're very unlikely to get anywhere on a shoestring with this idea; you need money to burn for pressing the flesh and making some deals, to make this work- I have a very hard time seeing this "going viral", given the business case.

I am sorry, if the above seems entirely negative in nature, but I am pessimistic about the chances of success in the near term, given the current conditions. I can see this is a tech product that might be very useful in the right places, the issues are almost entirely on the business case side- who's going to pay for this, why, and how to reach them.

[knorke]

sorry, I don't think this will work.
books, movies etc. you can get from a libary.
And I only pay 10Ôé¼ / year there.

For other stuff I know that at least in germany there are "Tauschringe" (" Local Exchange Trade Systems") that are mostly used by older people who use it to exchange selfmade cake or whatever.
It also works for services, like you cut somebodys hedge and then you get 5 "points." They keep track of the points with pen & paper.
I think the work and blabla that goes along with this system is half the fun for this people who are looking for an alternative to the usual market.
Not sure if they want some anonym internething?

So who should use this?

[SinbadEV]

The idea was that if we got enough people to sign up their friends you would have "circle of friends" groups listing their personal DVD collections, which should be secure considering you would need to personally interact with another user prior to loaning an item and outside of this case there would be no personally identifiable information available to the third-party.

My Boss was initially thinking of this in an "office" or "church" environment, but bent it towards individuals in the end. Because the service is free for 1 year (right now), the idea is to get people to try it out... if they like it they might be willing to pay a few bucks a month to keep using it.

The other use my boss foresaw was for inventory, the option is there to keep you items entirely private and therefore you could use the service as a catalog for insurance purposes or simply keeping track of what video games, books and movies you own (I personally own hundreds of books, DVDs and games, and this isn't a very large collection).

...I know that at least in germany there are "Tauschringe" (" Local Exchange Trade Systems") that are mostly used by older people who use it to exchange selfmade cake or whatever.
It also works for services, like you cut somebodys hedge and then you get 5 "points."

That is awesome, I've never heard of such a thing... providing you are wrong about the people who are participating in these systems doing it for the sake of the paperwork and averse to internet... those people are one of our markets.

[Argh]

The idea was that if we got enough people to sign up their friends you would have "circle of friends" groups listing their personal DVD collections, which should be secure considering you would need to personally interact with another user prior to loaning an item and outside of this case there would be no personally identifiable information available to the third-party.

That won't work, even if it works. Grow it large enough, and RIAA will hit the company with a sledgehammer, because you're actually passing copyrighted data around, not just providing a way for clients to form private networks under certain conditions (see Napster et al).

Moreover, the people doing that sort of sharing are either sharing the originals (i.e., they won't want to upload it, or lack the skills) or pirate copies (in which case, they'll just burn a new copy for a friend).

My Boss was initially thinking of this in an "office" or "church" environment

I think that the "church" might very well result in some early sales, and I'd urge your boss to put energy in that direction, even if it's unprofitable at first, just to get some actual, documented use cases in your files.

I really don't see individuals paying for this at all, though, unless it's in the context of something like a library or video-rental. I think that's unrealistic.

That does give us another category, though- mom-and-pop video outlets and "rent-2-own" establishments.

However, they're going to rightly object for the some of the same reasons libraries and businesses are going to- I don't see any Point of Sale functionality, barcode scanner stuff, etc. And there you're competing in a very fierce arena, frankly- it would be hard to meet the bar there, given that you're all broke, including your boss. That's a project that would require a funded team for a year, realistically.

The other use my boss foresaw was for inventory, the option is there to keep you items entirely private and therefore you could use the service as a catalog for insurance purposes or simply keeping track of what video games, books and movies you own (I personally own hundreds of books, DVDs and games, and this isn't a very large collection).

Ok, so it might be good for that. Here's a crazy idea that Just Might Work: go to insurance companies with this. They all want people to keep better track of their stuff, and would probably love to have their agents photograph everything when designing a policy, so that if it ever results in a claim, they have solid evidence.

Then the insurance companies can do that... and provide the final "report" to the customer as an account on your system, that they (customer) can alter, should they wish.

Voila... integration, training and setup fees from insurance companies, micropayments from customers, who'd basically be sold this as a (cheap) upgrade (say, $1 a month)- you have a viable business plan right there. That's a lot less crazy than hoping individuals like it enough to pay for it, frankly.

But... and this is a big "but"... rebrand the damn thing first, and create a sales appeal based on a theme of "helping people help themselves, while boosting your bottom line". Insurance companies would, no doubt, like a better way to fight bogus claims, etc., and if they can package something unpalatable to customers (i.e., snooping through your stuff to actually document it well enough for court) in the shrine of "helping customers understand their net worth, which we're protecting"... that Just Might Work.

Especially... if it doubles as a neat way for customers to also document what they're sharing for others, and is easy to use (i.e., no worries about Point of Sale, focus on simplicity for new entries, integration with SnapFish, etc. would be a good idea, but with a sophisticated "advanced" side for the insurance people to use).

I doubt if your boss can swing that without capital, but it's maybe a winner- the money's there, the need's there, and the price could be right for everybody involved. I like that one, it sounds like it could actually be practical and meet a real need.

[SinbadEV]

Moreover, the people doing that sort of sharing are either sharing the originals (i.e., they won't want to upload it, or lack the skills) or pirate copies (in which case, they'll just burn a new copy for a friend).

Are you saying that the kind of people willing to exchange physical media are more likely to swap digital copies/download internet copies?

Also, my understanding of fair use law indicates that, in most countries, letting a friend borrow a physical copy of a DVD is legal. Our website, at WORST is in the same position as a torrent server, acting as a broker connecting people to engage in such an exchange.

Argh, I'm really wondering if you actually understand what they are trying to do there... though it seems like you are and are just telling me its a market that doesn't exist...

We BEGGED our boss to put ads on the site, sell the treasure trove of potential customer information we are collecting (actually knowing what people BUY) etc... do link exchanges with sites like Amazon and Ebay for listed items and have a "Premium" version for businesses etc that had no ads etc... but he thinks that people will be willing to pay for the increased privacy and lack of advertising.

[knorke]

people who are participating in these systems doing it for the sake of the paperwork and averse to internet.

http://www.tauschringe.org/welcomeEngl.html
not averse to internet, but from what I think about those they also do it for the social interaction and not just to save money. They have meetings and stuff and the system would be very easy to exploit (just put some points on your paperthing and fake some signatures) but still it works.

for specific hobbys there are already alot of sites.
show/share music collection online? http://www.musik-sammler.de/
interessted in arcade machines? http://www.klov.com
Those also have the advantage of offering lots of background information.
You would have to find a real market niche, thats the challenge.

The idea seems very good at first, for example you need some expensive powertool like a cement mixer and then you can find somebody who will borrow to you if you only need it for a day. But I just can not see it working.

The problem:

(I personally own hundreds of books, DVDs and games, and this isn't a very large collection).

Yes, but would you want to put all media online just so that maybe some guy will borrow 2 games? You would at least have to enter author, title, year etc so people can search for them.

[Argh]

Are you saying that the kind of people willing to exchange physical media are more likely to swap digital copies/download internet copies?

No. They're much less likely to, I'd think. IDK, maybe I just don't understand "sharers" very well- I share out a fair number of books each year, but anything digital gets burned or emailed or FTP'd.

And I was assuming you meant digital copies, in a digital "library". You referred to that use case.

Physical copies are fine. Fair Use even in the U.S.A. is reasonable protection, and the RIAA is unlikely to bother you, the product's paid for.

Digital copies, though, will get you burned, even if you claim to just be a torrent server. No judge on Earth will buy that argument, or the Fair Use concept used in that way. I can see it now... "our 'movie sharing' group has 10,000 members, but we aren't helping people commit piracy, judge, they all must know each other", hehe. That's just my opinion, but based on the arguments that came out of the Pirate Bay fiasco, I am guessing that that's where things are headed, legally.

[SinbadEV]

Let me be clear for anyone who has gotten this far in the thread.

This is s system to allow people to see what Things (physical objects) people want to share and borrow them (physical).

SO you see I have a copy of "Evil Dead" and you message me saying you want to borrow it, the next time I see you in real life (at church, at the office or we arrange a specific meeting) I give you my copy of "Evil Dead"... then the system will remind you when its time to give it back to me.

[knorke]

at church, at the office or we arrange a specific meeting
that would only work in big cities.

[SinbadEV]

in smaller towns the entire town would be a community

[Argh]

KK, physical stuff only. Well, then we're back to the business plan.

If you want to find out whether it's really viable for individuals, I suggest talking to local groups of aficionados- people with a specific interest in a genre of music, for example, who might have a core of people who do enough sharing that they'd be interested. Try the jazz crowd- if you can't find them, talk in local record stores until you find one of the grognards. Find the local anime club, the horror fanclub- the people who are seriously into this stuff, have deep collections, and aren't government or corporate.

For anything that can be borrowed, but is specialized (exotic cooking and sewing gear immediately comes to mind) there are usually informal groups or even organized clubs. They're the core audience, imo- they, like librarians, are the ones who get borrowed from, and have the strongest interest in keeping track of the stuff.

[knorke]

yes, that might work but all these groups will already have their meeting places. like record shops, clubs etc.
And you will have to meet anyway to share the stuff, so you will most likely just have a talk like "yeah liked this tentacle movie? oh you should try this one then!"

[Argh]

IDK. Many of these folks will get together once a month and watch something together, but the bulk of their collections may or may not be lent. I've known a few folks in that category, and generally speaking, they like to lend, but they HATE IT when friends "permanently borrow" stuff, so they're always concerned about it.

Meh. I just figure that's the easiest first group to get an in with. I still think that the insurance thing would make more actual business sense.

[SinbadEV]

Argh, your a genius, special interest groups based around stuff (aka SciFi Clubs, Anime Enthusiasts, Horror Movie/KungFu Movie buffs)... they are a really great niche to start with...

I'm planning on cataloging my DVD, Book and Game collection and then getting my group of a dozen or so friends to sign up so that they know what I have and can borrow it from me... but I have a vested interest in the project so I'm probably in the "kook" category anyway.

[Argh]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the main lenders probably aren't men, and aren't lending movies. I can't justify this with marketing data, it's all just based on the people I know, so take that with whatever grain of salt you want.

Look at the home-art people (for example, high-end dollmaking, quilters, people who have candy-making gear, those sorts). They form groups, and people know people who know people, and they would probably like this, if it's marketed to them effectively. You may not know those people, but I know a few of them, and they're probably a good bet, and... hmm... this is another thing: call it sexist if you want, but women generally have fewer negative feelings about something that's "free", but is supported by advertisements or by selling to data-miners (so long as it isn't really-super-personal stuff, ofc).

[AF]

Your in real danger of someone comign along and implementing the core of your idea as a facebook application, providing them with a ready made userbase and a ready made platform to share/advertise.

That and you seriously need a design overhaul, right nwo its the sort of site people click fof without really thinking about it.