IF THIS GETS CONFUSING ... I AM SORRY.
PLEASE OBSERVE MY NEWLY POSTED THREADS FOR A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING.
I am taking this thread out of commission because I aparently was not clear enough... and it was misquoted tooooooooo much.
What if we took this one level higher...
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dj_oldfield
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What if we took this one level higher...
Last edited by dj_oldfield on 15 Nov 2005, 04:37, edited 2 times in total.
So turn the thing into a more game maker orientated engine. Such as maybe something seen by rpgtoolkit, rpgmaker XP, game maker, etc, but a heck of a lot more powerful.
I think that that is a good idea and will become possible anyways as soon as people stop hankering after the monopoly OTA has on features in spring. Adding support so that any RTS at all can eb ported to spring would eb the first step then moving things further and further around the genres.
I think that that is a good idea and will become possible anyways as soon as people stop hankering after the monopoly OTA has on features in spring. Adding support so that any RTS at all can eb ported to spring would eb the first step then moving things further and further around the genres.
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dj_oldfield
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Exactly... it is already very powerful!
it took me a while to figure out just how generous the camera panning was, but between that and the clear distinction between the data layer and the rendering layer of the software, all we would really have to do is create a more generic unit heierarchy so that the script engine can actually define the units and the rules instead of the game engine. This data can be compiled into a hash, and if done so correctly might actually improve performance over hardcoded units.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
[K.B] ... perhaps you didn't read closely enough...
Creating games with Spring: FREE
Playing games built with Spring: FREE
Membership (to play any Spring Games using Spring Servers): $30/yr
Not for the sake of profit... but for the sake of bandwidth... because:
A. People like to have player ratings
B. Not everyone can be a game host (has the technical necessities)
C. Laggy games are no fun
Not too many people can afford to support enough bandwidth to enable game hosting for many games of this nature. Further still... the processor overhead for hosting so many games require a financial investment in computers.
Asking for something that has already been written to be free is a little bit different then asking for someone to keep spending money on you... and while Microsoft can afford to do things like that... who among us can?
A small membership fee ($2 - $3/month) will enable this game to be backed by a solid network and to achieve the potential that it deserves.
The suggested solution renders:More modability == good
Charging people == sod off
The only reason there are so many mods out there is because it's FREE, which means anybody, regardless of their bank statements can mod it.
Creating games with Spring: FREE
Playing games built with Spring: FREE
Membership (to play any Spring Games using Spring Servers): $30/yr
Not for the sake of profit... but for the sake of bandwidth... because:
A. People like to have player ratings
B. Not everyone can be a game host (has the technical necessities)
C. Laggy games are no fun
Not too many people can afford to support enough bandwidth to enable game hosting for many games of this nature. Further still... the processor overhead for hosting so many games require a financial investment in computers.
Asking for something that has already been written to be free is a little bit different then asking for someone to keep spending money on you... and while Microsoft can afford to do things like that... who among us can?
A small membership fee ($2 - $3/month) will enable this game to be backed by a solid network and to achieve the potential that it deserves.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
Games arn't hosted by the server, and I doubt people are willing to pay to be able to host games when there are so many people who can and do for them.
People have made clear their desire to donate to the project, and so far, we have been fairly reluctant about accepting donations. Our main concern? While we certainly hope to have something on the level of a commercial release in the near future, there is no guarantee that it will ever happen. Unforeseen events arise, and it would be most unfortunate if everyone who donated felt swindled because the project did not turn out as they had hoped.
We do not plan to be more or less productive solely based upon the quantity and frequency of donations received. The TA Spring project is here only because we view this as an enjoyable hobby.
Also, because we're such nice people, we'll let you view the Source, available here (http://taspring.clan-sy.com/dl/taspring_0.63b1_src.zip), so you can help in making this game better than it already is (as though that were possible).
Asking for fees to play Spring would be a sure way to kill Spring in no time. The competition amongst commercial RTS is way too fierce, Spring should not go there.
Trying to turn Spring into a massive all purpose engine could also kill it. Well, I know the SY so far have shown amazing coding skill in both quality and amount, but seeing how they are leaving one after the other.... (ok just SJ left, but he was main programmer!)
I don't think the current dev team is interested into making RPG, but Spring source is freely downloadable, so anyone who want use the Spring engine to do another kind of game is I think welcome to go get the source from http://sourceforge.net/projects/springrts/ and start coding.
I thought I heard the game server didn't eat much ressouce.
What about we finish the RTS part before opening up to other kind of game?
Trying to turn Spring into a massive all purpose engine could also kill it. Well, I know the SY so far have shown amazing coding skill in both quality and amount, but seeing how they are leaving one after the other.... (ok just SJ left, but he was main programmer!)
I don't think the current dev team is interested into making RPG, but Spring source is freely downloadable, so anyone who want use the Spring engine to do another kind of game is I think welcome to go get the source from http://sourceforge.net/projects/springrts/ and start coding.
I thought I heard the game server didn't eat much ressouce.
What about we finish the RTS part before opening up to other kind of game?
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dj_oldfield
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I swear ... people type without readying
EVERY network or internet based utility whereby more then once computer are interacting together involves the use of a server PROGRAM. A am not speaking in the context of a machine dedicated to hosting network services, but a network service is also called a server.
I am not suggesting taking the FREE out of Spring... I am suggesting adding a new option so that you can acquire opponents without knowing them first. This does involve a server, for a great many reasons.
A server for a singe game is not as taxing as a server for many games.
zwzsg, it is true that you commonly do have many intelligent thoughts and comments, but it is clear that you did not even read the topic post. Therefore, I will simply refer to that in response to your post.
I am not suggesting that us developers write the new games... I am suggesting that we make it easy for those who are not developers to throw up ideas. A concept which really took off in the IRC world has proven itself in many other areas as well. If you make something easy enough for anyone to do... it takes on a life of it's own.
That's all i have for now... Ill post again tomorow... although probebly not on this topic... I SWEAR ... you people... you see the FEE thing and read nothing else. I want taSpring to be free just as much as any of you... but I also want to see how much of a life this thing can take on. To cross certain barriers... certain decisions must be made.... but as long as the user would be paying for a choice that they do not now possess... then you are still giving as much for free as you were yesterday.
I am not suggesting taking the FREE out of Spring... I am suggesting adding a new option so that you can acquire opponents without knowing them first. This does involve a server, for a great many reasons.
A server for a singe game is not as taxing as a server for many games.
zwzsg, it is true that you commonly do have many intelligent thoughts and comments, but it is clear that you did not even read the topic post. Therefore, I will simply refer to that in response to your post.
I am not suggesting that us developers write the new games... I am suggesting that we make it easy for those who are not developers to throw up ideas. A concept which really took off in the IRC world has proven itself in many other areas as well. If you make something easy enough for anyone to do... it takes on a life of it's own.
That's all i have for now... Ill post again tomorow... although probebly not on this topic... I SWEAR ... you people... you see the FEE thing and read nothing else. I want taSpring to be free just as much as any of you... but I also want to see how much of a life this thing can take on. To cross certain barriers... certain decisions must be made.... but as long as the user would be paying for a choice that they do not now possess... then you are still giving as much for free as you were yesterday.
Maybe you are missing that spring DOESNT run on a server...
The lobby is nothing more than a glorified IRC client... Everything thats actually happening ingame happens strictly p2p.
Seing how much data the lobbyserver gets from the client, a simple 1M upload DSL connected PC could easily serve 10 times to current load...
The lobby is nothing more than a glorified IRC client... Everything thats actually happening ingame happens strictly p2p.
Seing how much data the lobbyserver gets from the client, a simple 1M upload DSL connected PC could easily serve 10 times to current load...
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dj_oldfield
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 07:10
so there is one missunderstanding
Nope... I not missing the point...
I wasn't talking about the Lobby server... nor any other server that has already been written. I was suggesting something new to add... and a way to maintain it.
which I have already stated several times.
I wasn't talking about the Lobby server... nor any other server that has already been written. I was suggesting something new to add... and a way to maintain it.
which I have already stated several times.
translating what he is saying into TA Speak... he wants tauniverse, this forum, and fileuniverse and the lobby-server, laddars and everything to all be hosted on one big super-Spring-server-host...
other people like storm and gnome and people would still be allowed to host and distribute and even run their own lobby-server... but this central 99.999% reliable server would be the "home" of spring and require money to acctually run and manage...
WE DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA... we understand it... but we don't like it...
improving the engine to the point where it can be used for anything is a cool idea... personally I would rather focus on RTSs cause their are other game-making engines out their already...
other people like storm and gnome and people would still be allowed to host and distribute and even run their own lobby-server... but this central 99.999% reliable server would be the "home" of spring and require money to acctually run and manage...
WE DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA... we understand it... but we don't like it...
improving the engine to the point where it can be used for anything is a cool idea... personally I would rather focus on RTSs cause their are other game-making engines out their already...
Well, to be honest, I like the idea!
However, I think the idea is somewhat too far behind our 'thinking-horizon' and I really can't disagree with those feelings. I feel this whole concept of other games based on the Spring engine should be thougth of after the point were the engine is 'good enough' so other games as FPS-es, based on the Spring engine, etc. are really imaginable.
The whole paid-servers idea is nice. We don't know how long the current situation, with free hosting etc, will last, and at some point in the future, a solution as dj suggested has to be found. And doesn't the massive grow of MMORPG's show the possibilities?
To others: I think dj_oldfield here has a sharp mind and fresh ideas. We need to open our minds a little, this game is worth of such great ideas!! I mean, seriously, Spring is such a good game, with such a lot of work done to it! We can't think enough about the possibilities and how good this game actually is!
Just my $0.02
However, I think the idea is somewhat too far behind our 'thinking-horizon' and I really can't disagree with those feelings. I feel this whole concept of other games based on the Spring engine should be thougth of after the point were the engine is 'good enough' so other games as FPS-es, based on the Spring engine, etc. are really imaginable.
The whole paid-servers idea is nice. We don't know how long the current situation, with free hosting etc, will last, and at some point in the future, a solution as dj suggested has to be found. And doesn't the massive grow of MMORPG's show the possibilities?
To others: I think dj_oldfield here has a sharp mind and fresh ideas. We need to open our minds a little, this game is worth of such great ideas!! I mean, seriously, Spring is such a good game, with such a lot of work done to it! We can't think enough about the possibilities and how good this game actually is!
Just my $0.02
How does that SAT vocabulary comparison format go?BvDorp wrote:...
The whole paid-servers idea is nice. We don't know how long the current situation, with free hosting etc, will last, and at some point in the future, a solution as dj suggested has to be found. And doesn't the massive grow of MMORPG's show the possibilities?
...
"Apples : Orange :: Springers : MMORPGers" ?
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
|_| Spring does run off a server. This server is called the host, and is on the hosts computer.IMSabbel wrote:Maybe you are missing that spring DOESNT run on a server...
The lobby is nothing more than a glorified IRC client... Everything thats actually happening ingame happens strictly p2p.
Seing how much data the lobbyserver gets from the client, a simple 1M upload DSL connected PC could easily serve 10 times to current load...
You lto have twisted everythign dj_oldfield has said.
While ti may or may nto have been a good idea, it is obvious people wotn like it even before they understand it, aswell as a few of zwzsg points which apply wether he read the post or not.
What we need to do is make spring pioneer things, innovate, be spiffy. Payment of any kind for a feature is not spiffy.
We need to find an alternative solution then, my initial reaction to what i thought you where sayign was allowing spring to ahve the option to hook up to a mmorpg style network of servers, and I'm not sure what else you meant as ti wasnt all that clear. Firstly this can be circumvented by employing a more decntralised approach of p2p with a main server to co-ordinate and take control fo areas controleld by players who have gone offline, and keep track of everything. This in tiself could be a second p2p network fo reliable computers, aka servers such as those hosting this site and tauniverse etc.
Thus the user would be paying for there participation, by paying for their own bandwidth, managing their own resources as it's all through their own itnernet connection. Anybody who pays for stuff per megabyte isntead of an unnmetred connection isnt gonna play anyways.
Really you need to express your ideas more clearly, they're all fuzzy like, and people are misinerpreting them because they could be describing several things.
The... what is it, 3 remaining devs? They have more important things to worry about than making spring able to become an RPG or MMO or FPS or whatever you want.
NOBODY in their right mind will pay for something they can get for free. Your ideas are horrible.
On to something more intelligent: why don't SYs start up a donation thing? I'd sure as hell pay for this. Although if they started CHARGING for it, I'd be the first so say to hell with it and work on something else.
Spring is an RTS engine. Which is free. Which can render the best RTS of all time in full 3d. While adding features and fixing bugs. If you want more, jump off a cliff.
NOBODY in their right mind will pay for something they can get for free. Your ideas are horrible.
On to something more intelligent: why don't SYs start up a donation thing? I'd sure as hell pay for this. Although if they started CHARGING for it, I'd be the first so say to hell with it and work on something else.
Spring is an RTS engine. Which is free. Which can render the best RTS of all time in full 3d. While adding features and fixing bugs. If you want more, jump off a cliff.
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Tim Blokdijk
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