MidKnight wrote:I, too, want a configurable archive mover. Because I keep my apps and windows installation on separate drives, I don't want Spring stuff getting into my My Documents folder.
this is the important part.
Forboding Angel wrote:It's not in the my documents folder. It's in user/My Games/Spring
a rose by any other name...
Forboding Angel wrote:Do you really want to deal with uac all the time?
doesn't work that way forb. I do the same thing and get no issues with uac because I do not use programfiles.
Forboding Angel wrote:I vote a big "Hell No" towards this request. Finally we're doin' it rite, and now all of a sudden we're gonna start doin it rong again jsut cause we can? Divide by 0.
Beherith wrote:The only bad thing is that my documents is located on my system drive, which has limited space
had the same issue, but then i right-clicked right documents and told it to gtfo to a different drive. didn't even know that it was possible before.
Easy Peazy:
Click on the Start button and then right-click on My Documents and select Properties. If there's no My Documents in your start menu then right click on the My Documents icon on your desktop instead.
When you've clicked on properties, select "Move" and then navigate to your D: drive. Select the drive letter and then click "Make New Folder." Enter "My Documents" as the folder name and hit Enter and then OK. Windows will then ask you whether you want to move your documents; click Yes.
Moving your documents make take some time. Once moved, though, you can access them normally from the "My Documents" icon on the desktop or elsewhere.
On an additional note... how did you guys not know this?
@FA, yes, moving My Dox off of your OS drive is always a good move. What cheeses me off is that they don't extend this to your whole Userland folder. On XP, the only way to get Userland, as a whole, relocated off-drive involves building a custom slipstream installation of windows. Even registry hacking produces spotty results.
If you get a multi-user set up or you have a lot of important content in AppData that you want to preserve, the "relocate my documents" thing is a piss-poor solution.
well in 13 days you can pick up win7, which is very similar to XP on steroids (not to mention 1 million times more stable). People say vista was bad, and if you didn't have the hardware to support the OS, yes it was bad (otherwise it was stable as a rock), but next to windows7, xp is like a virus.
And yes I agree that not being capable of moving userland is kinda lame (I dunno if you can actually move userland on win7, you prolly can but I haven't looked into it... never even considered moving an entire user offdrive tbh), but it isn't the end of the world, and I think that most of the devs can agree that maps and mod as well as essential spring configs need to be in a single non-UAC protected place (accessible via registry or env-var).
It could be done without using "userland" but it would be a pretty shoddy practice.
One of the great things about linux is the fact that it corrals your files. That's pretty much exactly the practice that windows is following because it is infinitely better, but I won't pretend that it doesn't take some getting used to.
In windows 7 there is no my pictures or my music folder, as they've all become 'libraries' like the music lbirary in media player only in explorer. They open as normal folders, only they can display the contents of multiple folders inside them, and you can add extra folders to them or remove them, or create entire libraries from scratch.
For example, I added a spring library, then added the folder in my games and the folder in program files, and it automagically merged the two. No messing around checking one folder, then checking the next, everything infront of me even though its based off of several locations, nice UI to modify the setup.
As such under windows 7 you can change the very definition of my documents itself, casting all of your opposing points into a great big murky land of uncertainty.
As for userland. Those who want a self contined folder can still do so, just remove the my docs folders, install to a writable location, and use the old archive mover.
Those who dont like havign maps for each suer, can move it into public folders, and eveyrone will get them, and in windows 7 you won't notice the difference due to the library setup.
Springmodupdater should not be put in user land though, this is an error, a security risk, and unorganised, it should remain in the same folder as spring.exe
Eitherway content goes in userland, binaries go in application land. This is how it is everywhere, phones, linux, OS X, even a lot of XP stuff.
So instead of demanding that ALL users have ALL content in application land, despite the horrible problems it entailed for many users, why do we not have calls for ALL application stuff in userland?
Or better yet, why dont the people complaining use the portable spring installer and use the old archive mover instead?
AF you are sorta wrong. Libraries are similar to what we used to use subst for in xp.
My library list for example:
Clipboard01.jpg (28.4 KiB) Viewed 1697 times
And userland stuff... everything is there:
Clipboard1.jpg (46.81 KiB) Viewed 1698 times
AF wrote:Springmodupdater should not be put in user land though, this is an error, a security risk, and unorganised, it should remain in the same folder as spring.exe
No, it isn't a security risk, because I control the files for it. Every single file in that folder gets updated (assuming there is an update available) every time it is run. You wouldn't appreciate all the uac prompts if it were somewhere else. Additionally, the source is available for anyone to see at any time. Thankfully, due to some cleverness on my part (inspired by the CA guys), I no longer need to update the moduleupdater files anymore unless I'm adding a mod to the list.
Also, when SL FINALLY gets mod updates built in, then SMU will be obsolete and no longer needed, and I will be 1 million times happier.
Binaries at some level are all exploitable or buggy in some manner. The point of system land, is that executable code goes in system land. Now even if your code is safe, it is sitting in user land where anything could modify or replace it.
Now I do not feel like writting a lua widget or coding an AI to prove my point by rewritting your spring mod updater with a sub7 trojan, but you get my point?
AF wrote:
Binaries at some level are all exploitable or buggy in some manner. The point of system land, is that executable code goes in system land. Now even if your code is safe, it is sitting in user land where anything could modify or replace it.
Wouldn't do you much good. If any of the files have been touched, they get replaced by the ones on the server before the binary is even executed. All of the files get checked before the binary is executed. If they have been changed, they get replaced. I can't make this much clearer. It's no more exploitable than anything else in spring and the way it is set up is pretty secure. All things considered, SD could be called a security risk (even though I don't believe that for a second).
Forboding Angel wrote:Wouldn't do you much good. If any of the files have been touched, they get replaced by the ones on the server before the binary is even executed. All of the files get checked before the binary is executed. If they have been changed, they get replaced.
The mechanism that does that is in the same location as the files in question right? Im sure if one can replace the executable with a trojan horse, one can remove the updater checks.
AF wrote:The mechanism that does that is in the same location as the files in question right? Im sure if one can replace the executable with a trojan horse, one can remove the updater checks.
Ok, let me just put it this way. If you don't like it, make something better, otherwise, shut up. Last time I checked, it was my project, and you don't have to use it. Make something better to replace it, then we'll all be happy!
All of this is moot anyway once SL gets it's ass in gear and implements Mod Updates.
AF's bitch ass PMing me wrote:
Message subject: Re: Spring Archiver
From: AF
Sent: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:37 pm
To: Forboding Angel
Message
Subject: Spring Archiver
Quote:
Ok, let me just put it this way. If you don't like it, make something better, otherwise, shut up. Last time I checked, it was my project, and you don't have to use it. Make something better to replace it, then we'll all be happy!
All of this is moot anyway once SL gets it's ass in gear and implements Mod Updates.
If you had been paying attention to private messages and associated media, you would know full well that you'd be eating those words sooner rather than later XD
Eating what? Obviously you aren't capable of creating anything better, because you haven't done it. So I believe you ended up eating your own words did you not?
Forboding Angel wrote:Obviously you aren't capable of creating anything better, because you haven't done it
forb, by that logic nobody on this planet is capable of creating something better?
Maybe if I goad him enough he'll actually do it, and then we'll all be better off. I made that thing to fill a niche. It does the job, but there are 100+ people here that could have done it better and possibly have even managed to implement rsync or zsync in place of wget.
@peet, my server of course. Why?
It's pretty sad, but goading people is the only way to get certain people around here to do anything. He knows java, even better is that he knows it really well! That's cross platform capability right there! He could make something better that could straight across replace it, I would be happy - he would be happy, but I'll bet you 50 bucks that he won't.
Last edited by Forboding Angel on 11 Oct 2009, 01:39, edited 1 time in total.
You never offered to help AF, if you had I would have gladly turned the entire project over to you while lending help where I could. I still would for that matter, but around here, generally you seem to prefer to bitch and moan rather than to lend your skills to accomplish a goal!
Edit: I also don't care for you threatening to make an ai or lua widget to try to hack it jsut to prove a point. Then who would be the horses ass, and where would we be? Another useful tool, dead, because you wanted to make yourself feel superior! Nice1!
Foreboding, the foundries are in motion, just because you cannot see all the cogs turning, doesn't mean the factories closed.
Keep in mind that I cannot take on projects indefinately, and it should be obvious by now that goading me into doing things generally doesn't work. If I had the momentum to focus on something like this, I would make my presence known.
AF wrote:Keep in mind that I cannot take on projects indefinately, and it should be obvious by now that goading me into doing things generally doesn't work. If I had the momentum to focus on something like this, I would make my presence known.
For someone who knows what they are doing... Making it would be very simple.
Lemmie show you exactly how simple...
You have what we have now... A basic gui. Pictures of each mod, with a short description and a button to download. The link to the file never changes (because the server takes care of that). Then you invoke archivemover on the downloaded file. Are you honestly telling me that doing this would take more than 2 or 3 hours at the most?
I have my reasons, I'm just not in a position to do anything about it, nor do I wish to maintain it and push forward.
Indeed it is something I can do, that I have the codebase to execute and deploy, and I sympathise, I am not happy at all with the current situation, but it's not in my best interests right now.
