One for all and... One for all again (BA)

[HectorMeyer]

Let me repeat another suggestion:

Advertise No-Comm-No-Control mode and change it so that units become takeable by teammates once a player is without a comm.

Or are there any arguments for why right now units keep fucking up the team by idling away until the unlikely event happens that some teammate gives you one of his previously rezzed coms? I'd really love to hear the rationale behind this.

This mode will make people think twice about about heroic comm moves. Selfdestroying comm for metal wouldn't work as well either then.

As for the the proposed transporter speed nerf: of course nerf transporter speed only when transporting a comm

[1v0ry_k1ng]

there are SO MANY simple tweaks that would sort this without otherwise affecting gameplay that the only reason it is still a feature is because there is no intention of fixing it (like alot of BA) this thread is redundant, may as well lock

[HectorMeyer]

such tweaks exist for sure. that's why there is this huge discussion about tons of flawed tweaks.

[Gota]

So what you're saying is that the solution is to buff the T1 bomber and possibly the T1-fighter-ground-attack?

I can't tell you just straight of the bat what units really need a buff and to what extant in the t1 air labs but buffing t1 air units will,IMO,definitely make combombing harder.
Maybe even the T1 air con needs a buff.
Unlike T2 AA,t1 has the MT which are good AA turrets for cost so you can easily buff t1 air a bit in general without hurting,air units/AA,balance.

[albator]

Sounds like youv been playing with noobs.

Anyone currently playing, that you dont consider a noob? Seems like you havent played much at all lately...

If you start air on geyser in 90% of chances u will fail and can only manage to surprise someone who for some reason will not send a scout immediately after a land lab is finished..

I don't play much because #1 nobody to play with #2 for some reason i cannot connect to the spring server using the lobby while i can perfectly well connect to the website at all times.

About removing air lab from com build list.
I think its a fail idea and will make t1 air even more useless than it already is.

The point is to solve the issue without removing any other tactics or removing as little as possible..

You need to decrease % of successfull comdrops/bombs without hurting the use of trans for regular units,without removing the ability to move a commander out of harm's way or just move him around with a trans.
Air units are already only good as support units in big games removing t1 air lab would make em be used even less.
Hell why not just remove air units completely?

A solution can be to make air units actually more useful.
This will slowly but surely make all players build early AA.
People don't build AA now because most know that the chances of an early gunship or bomber rush is v low if air was MORE viable wed actually see more aa and less combombing.

Using trans with com is a much more efficient than using any other t1 unit hence use of com+trans is so prevalent and so successful because nobody is prepared to deal with air units cause those are mostly useless.

You really need to plays some games (not 8vs8 dsd). Most of the top 1vs1 player win over other top 1vs1 payer by starting Air (on geyser).

It is funny that everybody wanted to increase air T1 cause it was kind of usless and now everyone wants to make T1 air even less efficiency. It seems that poeple want less and less complexity and only stumpy spam. Maybe these poeple should change game and go play some c&c like games.

[pintle]

In however long BA has existed (~3 years?) I have only ever seen air start work in 1v1 by "doing a flop": rush 1 or 2 bombers with the lab partially reclaimed, finish reclaim as bomber clears lab, and drop your bot/veh lab, prep the rush to counter the panic aa spam.

I really think that is appalling balance, totally unintuitive, and even that highly refined build order is sub optimal and very vunerable to rush (partially reclaimed lab dies very easy).

[Gota]

Also works with banshee.

[JohannesH]

Also works with banshee.

But not as well.

[pintle]

Yeah and u can mix in like 2 blades to paralyse the 1 mt they manage to get up if you really want...

Still, building a lab then immediately beginning to reclaim it as the only viable route... epic balance fail.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

well, thats BA for you- t1 vehicles and defences balanced to the nth degree, everything else fairly questionable

[SirMaverick]

Lately there has been more and more people just building air, flying to the othersides bases and dgunning. Sure, its legit in all sense of the work at the moment, but there is a seriously problem emerging.

If the player drops and dguns a few bases his team generally wins.

The other team deserves to loose, because there was no aa in those few bases.
8 Player per team, no one build radar? No front player build aa? (all of this can contain the damage)

If he dies, the other team wins with his com metal.

You team deserves to loose, because you didn't send in second com to gdun the wreckage (or air cons to reclaim).

Either way, the game is decided generally by the one person (talking about larger games here, though smaller games this is just the same).

The game is decided by at least 1 player doing a good job and at least 7 players failing.

If you still want a change consider TFC's suggestion: No dgun available in/around enemy start pos/box for the first 5-10 minutes. This imo the smallest change possible. No balance changes, still dgun usage in most parts of the map in that time, later everywhere.

[REVENGE]

Question is, what does it take to stop a determined, skilled, and informed combomber from achieving his objectives? You could build AA, but how much would it cost to effectively cover allied starting territory? These days, I can pretty much drop down where there's no AA, walk into a base, kill everything, then walk away and trans out. Want to stop me from walking in? Build more LLTs. Oh wait sorry, you've wasted too much metal on LLTs, and my allies will just come kill you outright.

[TheFatController]

Question is, what does it take to stop a determined, skilled, and informed combomber from achieving his objectives? You could build AA, but how much would it cost to effectively cover allied starting territory? These days, I can pretty much drop down where there's no AA, walk into a base, kill everything, then walk away and trans out. Want to stop me from walking in? Build more LLTs. Oh wait sorry, you've wasted too much metal on LLTs, and my allies will just come kill you outright.

This is the problem imo, it's all well and good to call people who lose to comdroppers noobs but it takes a totally noobish amount of metal to defend against comdropping.

Missile towers / crashers etc. don't see far enough, shoot fast enough or do enough damage to prevent it - and even with 2 of them someone can just comdrop a bit further out and walk in from there.

[JohannesH]

Be ready to blow him with a comm of your own. Relatively easy unless you compush very early. Very easy if you have an air start of your own, just follow him with your own commtrans, and make fighter bit later. This just happened yesterday in a dsd game, Kixu trying to drop and Triton intercepted, Kixu backed off when he saw that he cant land without triton following straight after him.

Mobile aa is better than towers too, just have them outside your base (quick to make as soon as you spot the dropper), if he drops you can then snipe his trans and hes trapped. But that doesnt work so fast either if you commpushed already...

[1v0ry_k1ng]

combombing totally decides the outcome of most games without any hard work. i was losing terribly vs ginekog in 3v3 - he had a huge force, shitloads of dfens and i had a failing porcline of 1 hllt and a force about a fifth of his size.

solution? make air, make transport, combomb his frontline- blowing away almost his entire porc line and army- then send my army in to mop up his boy.

skill required: 0
effectiveness: 9000

[YokoZar]

Question is, what does it take to stop a determined, skilled, and informed combomber from achieving his objectives? You could build AA, but how much would it cost to effectively cover allied starting territory? These days, I can pretty much drop down where there's no AA, walk into a base, kill everything, then walk away and trans out. Want to stop me from walking in? Build more LLTs. Oh wait sorry, you've wasted too much metal on LLTs, and my allies will just come kill you outright.

This is the problem imo, it's all well and good to call people who lose to comdroppers noobs but it takes a totally noobish amount of metal to defend against comdropping.

Missile towers / crashers etc. don't see far enough, shoot fast enough or do enough damage to prevent it - and even with 2 of them someone can just comdrop a bit further out and walk in from there.

Similarly, starting air takes a completely noobish amount of resources unless you're comm dropping.

Maybe removing the air lab from the comm build list has more merit than we thought.

[pintle]

Nerf Atlas/Valkyrie (accel, turn rate, and max speed, maybe cost?)
Buff FF/Avenger (speed relative to transport?)
Make t1 air cons have a use other than reclaim/starting nano towers

More air starts= less idiots caught off guard, and Regret still gets to do his thing.

[albator]

All these threads are talking about llt, defence, ground base AA.... Maybe u should start to play some real games where poeple are not afraid to blow their com when there is a com drop ("oh no, i am gonna to loose my precious com, i rather lose my entire base and let the ennemy commander destroy all my other allies"). When you start air,make some Fighters (and blades) and not only trans !! Build just a few AA which gives u time to move your com in the other com direction and get the 2.5K metal. Make one or 2 mobil AA to prevent com escape of the ennemy com and get the 2.5k. Those are very simple things, but it seems that lot of poeple (noobs ? c&c players ?) want a stumpy spam game and refuse the idea that BA can be more complex that stumpy spam and Dgun million of stumpy at front.

When u play with descent player, the player (which obviously is not descent) who wants to com drop give 2.5k to the other team or he just abord his com drop (casue he IS descent) becasue he saw some mobil AA or a com near the place he wants to drop his com.

[pintle]

All these threads are talking about llt, defence, ground base AA.... Maybe u should start to play some real games where poeple are not afraid to blow their com when there is a com drop ("oh no, i am gonna to loose my precious com, i rather lose my entire base and let the ennemy commander destroy all my other allies"). When you start air,make some Fighters (and blades) and not only trans !! Build just a few AA which gives u time to move your com in the other com direction and get the 2.5K metal. Make one or 2 mobil AA to prevent com escape of the ennemy com and get the 2.5k. Those are very simple things, but it seems that lot of poeple (noobs ? c&c players ?) want a stumpy spam game and refuse the idea that BA can be more complex that stumpy spam and Dgun million of stumpy at front.

When u play with descent player, the player (which obviously is not descent) who wants to com drop give 2.5k to the other team or he just abord his com drop (casue he IS descent) becasue he saw some mobil AA or a com near the place he wants to drop his com.

Or he gives an atlas to his non-retarded ally who drops on the 5k m com corpse pile, has himself a feast and spams flash. Seriously mate, you are talking bollocks :D

[Regret]

All these threads are talking about llt, defence, ground base AA.... Maybe u should start to play some real games where poeple are not afraid to blow their com when there is a com drop ("oh no, i am gonna to loose my precious com, i rather lose my entire base and let the ennemy commander destroy all my other allies"). When you start air,make some Fighters (and blades) and not only trans !! Build just a few AA which gives u time to move your com in the other com direction and get the 2.5K metal. Make one or 2 mobil AA to prevent com escape of the ennemy com and get the 2.5k. Those are very simple things, but it seems that lot of poeple (noobs ? c&c players ?) want a stumpy spam game and refuse the idea that BA can be more complex that stumpy spam and Dgun million of stumpy at front.

When u play with descent player, the player (which obviously is not descent) who wants to com drop give 2.5k to the other team or he just abord his com drop (casue he IS descent) becasue he saw some mobil AA or a com near the place he wants to drop his com.

All truth here. You guys should really learn how to play the game instead of making useless topics/posts on the forums.