One for all and... One for all again (BA)

[Argh]

Nah, then you'd punish people who start in the middle of a map, even more than most maps already punish them for starting there.

And it also wouldn't cure nub combomb fever, which, as you pointed out, is usually a game-wrecker for the team whose nub performed that stunt.

[AF]

We have a fundamental problem here nobody is bothering with

• You guys want commanders that can d-gun
• dgun destroys any unit
• You guys want to be able to transport commanders in t1 aircraft

Any attempt to change the above or reduce its potency is condemned as heresy and noobish.

Yet these 3 simple points lead to many situations that arise that are untenable. Rather than address the points which are fundamentally flawed, patches are placed on top to cover the flaws up. Some are tweaks that dont actually address the problem. Others are suggestions which could address it by adding complexity, but are never actually implemented.

The reasoning behind this is that these 3 points are used as a frame for a style of play which is desired. However, this is not optimal gameplay.

Right now, the best way to win under these circumstances is not the desired game play. What's more, the patches covering up this problem are colluding to make it worse. Doesn't what you do to treat the problem, it wont cure it.

One example of this is XTA. Changes were made in XTA, and at one point the players discovered that building units was pointless, and the best tactic was to build a factory and march their commander to the enemy base and dgun everything in sight, including the enemy commander, resulting in a handful of units at their base to win the game with. It became a game of moving the commander around the map to destroy the enemy while the enemy commander did the same. This was the result of making the commander more powerful.

BA has gone the opposite route. The commander is weaker. It is easy to blow it up with a tonne of cheap troops. As a result the bias is towards using the huge explosion as the primary weapon, while using dgun for opportunity targets.

A corpse with a lot of metal was a patch intended to prevent the weak commander problem, when infact it has instead produced its own problem. Instead of discouraging combombs, it has produced new tactics in the aftermath of a combomb, and the mere notion of a huge metal corpse does not occur unless you've seen and exploited the aftermath of a combomb.

And of course, Chris Taylors 'patch' was the slow commander + commander ends.

His latest solution to the problem has been twofold:

• The ACU overload weapon may destroy t1 units instantly, but it is not a kill all weapon, the ACU is strong but cannot singlehandedly kill t1 armies like an XTA com, nor does it blow up when more than 4 units approach like BA.
• The ACU destruction blast harms units and lingers afterwards

Thus breaking the 3 point pattern, removing the fundamental flaw somewhat.

[Neddie]

I personally thought the best idea would be to either weaken the transport when carrying a commander, as I suggested, or give the commander some sort of lua-based drop sickness. I like being able to move my build power around early game, this is why I bother going Air from my start.

[Pxtl]

AF, the first half of your post is my conclusion as well - the BA commander and the transport make this kind of gameplay inevitable.

Imho, the two best options would be
a) L1 Transport cannot move Commander, or
b) leave it as is.

Any other solution will either be an obscure and inconsistent rule that will not completely solve the problem (see Nixa and Argh's suggestions) which will just overcomplicate an already-complex game.

Meanwhile, the commanders flying around the map at L1 are obviously _not_ the intended gameplay for BA. Removing this element from the game would reduce a strategic option, but it would be the cleanest way to solve the problem.

Of course, the hardcores will state that there is no problem, which is also a legitimate viewpoint. It all depends on how much you're willing to trade off competing concerns. Personally, I think this small aspect of the game could be sacrificed for a great improvement in the overall gameplay experience, but obviously that's just my perspective.

[YokoZar]

Um, here's an idea. Somebody just write a ModOption that disables the ability of the Commander to use T1 transports (easy). That fixes both com-nap and airdropped coms.

Hover commanders:

If the comm becomes a hovercraft:

• He can still walk fast but can't be dropped early
• He can't commbomb
• He won't be commnapped
• He won't be useless or dead slow in the water

This sounds like something worth trying. It should be really easy to make too, and TheFatController even suggested it as a mod option in the mod options thread a few months ago.

[Gota]

Well personally i hated this mechanic for a long time and so much that i changed SA to deal with it without any tricks or lua.

In SA All t1 AA Can shoot land and air which means missile towers samson/slasher,crasher/jethro scout ships hover aa are all equipped to deal with transports and air in general.
This makes blowing your commander harder overall.
Also since turrets shoot through others MT or AA units on the front are not obstructed by other turrets and are able to kill any transport with ease.

I have a suggestion to BA how to solve this.
Make t1 transports take say,6-8 units at once.
Obviously this will make the transport much more expensive and it will not be possible to easily build it at the start of the game if it costs like another lab.

This will still allow you to transport your commander out of harms way,to just move it around if needed,will prevent transport rush at start and will make it less of a hassle to transport many units around since you will need less transports.

There is only one issue and that is the fact that such a transport will have to have more hp to some extant.
This makes it easier to combomb front lines when you do get one of these transports but even now when the enemy has a line of Samsons you take u transport go around them and come from the side and combomb near them.

[Wombat]

-100 e when com is in trans

[1v0ry_k1ng]

wouldnt just lowering the LoS of the air transport reduce alot of this faggotry

[Regret]

ITT: newbish forumers most of which don't play BA discuss BA.

[Nixa]

this is true, so far the majority of posts have come from a) people that do not play BA or b) people like regret who regularly use this tactic. We need the average BA to vote tbh

[Lord Juzza]

I'm in favor of removing it. I'd like to see BA gameplay without the faggotry of com dropping and early game combombs.

[albator]

No. If u your dont want to be combomb, dont compush. You cannot Dguns millions of unit with commander and expect never be combomb. Build AA, this game is not a stumpy spamm.

[Nixa]

No. If u your dont want to be combomb, dont compush. You cannot Dguns millions of unit with commander and expect never be combomb. Build AA, this game is not a stumpy spamm.

Off topic really... please keep this post on topic

[Lord Juzza]

No. If u your dont want to be combomb, dont compush. You cannot Dguns millions of unit with commander and expect never be combomb. Build AA, this game is not a stumpy spamm.

I didn't say anything about compushing and this is off topic, stick to teh topic.

[Regret]

faggotry of com dropping and early game combombs.

If u your dont want to be combomb, dont compush.

How is that offtopic? Stop being offtopic by attacking people for no reason Nixa and Juzza.

[Lord Juzza]

faggotry of com dropping and early game combombs.

If u your dont want to be combomb, dont compush.

How is that offtopic? Stop being offtopic by attacking people for no reason Nixa and Juzza.

In the context he used it in it was offtopic and answering no ones questions.

[JohannesH]

If early commdrop is the only problem you want fixed, I have an easy solution.

Rule: No commdrop in enemy base inside 10 min

:O

[HectorMeyer]

Fear not, i've got the perfect solution:

• make transporters carrying commanders as slow as walking commanders
• remove commander wreck
• double commander HP

[JohannesH]

Fear not, i've got the perfect solution:

• make transporters carrying commanders as slow as walking commanders
• remove commander wreck
• double commander HP

Solution to what exactly? That sucks

[HectorMeyer]

Solution to what exactly?

Early comm drop. Maybe make transported coms 50% faster than walking speed or so, but not more. The commander is meant to be a static base builder, not a damage dealer which can be deployed everywhere on the map within seconds. If you want to expand, use con planes or transport convehs. Also, slower trans are easier to detect and intercept, so this also helps with late game commdrops.

The rest is just my "I hate expendable comms" agenda.