http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n16/mich02_.html
Interesting - if you dare to care!
Text on class vs race
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Re: Text on class vs race
I suppose something should be done to help more wealthy people get along with less wealthy people. The middle class is getting smaller over here and there will always be at least some poor people in any society. I'm not really sure about what could be done, though. More charity programs and better communication skills?
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I find it incredible that anybody is wasting their brainpower blogging about lingering minor hypocrisy in the class that has always been most insulated from reality, when there are so many bigger issues that require immediate attention.
How people treat each other, rich or poor, is of little consequence in the long term, if opportunities for real economic mobility, and the living standards of everybody in the "lower quartiles" continue to slide downward. We'll all just be serfs again, and it won't matter if the upper crust is racially sensitive.
How people treat each other, rich or poor, is of little consequence in the long term, if opportunities for real economic mobility, and the living standards of everybody in the "lower quartiles" continue to slide downward. We'll all just be serfs again, and it won't matter if the upper crust is racially sensitive.
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The issue as it always was is that people are allowed to get stinking rich.
Taxes should be controlled in such a way so that you couldn't get Billionaires.
A slowly rising income texasion that grows more as people get more at a parabolic relation maybe?or some other elaborate and smart way of achieving the same goal.
Creativity and innovation should be encouraged and unemployment should not be but not so as to create people with a huge amount of resources...
What is bill gates or warren buffet if not the modern day queens and princesses..
The creation of such giants only leads to bending laws,creating monopolies influencing politics unproportionately and many other social ills.
I also don't understand tex steps where form x amount of income you get taxed more...
Why not instead smoothen it out with a progressive increasing taxation and not put such a hard boundary where if you pass x income ull get less money than someone who was very close to the boundary but didn't quite pass it.
I AM a noob at economics so i might be way off.
Taxes should be controlled in such a way so that you couldn't get Billionaires.
A slowly rising income texasion that grows more as people get more at a parabolic relation maybe?or some other elaborate and smart way of achieving the same goal.
Creativity and innovation should be encouraged and unemployment should not be but not so as to create people with a huge amount of resources...
What is bill gates or warren buffet if not the modern day queens and princesses..
The creation of such giants only leads to bending laws,creating monopolies influencing politics unproportionately and many other social ills.
I also don't understand tex steps where form x amount of income you get taxed more...
Why not instead smoothen it out with a progressive increasing taxation and not put such a hard boundary where if you pass x income ull get less money than someone who was very close to the boundary but didn't quite pass it.
I AM a noob at economics so i might be way off.
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how dare people have success.Gota wrote:The issue as it always was is that people are allowed to get stinking rich.
Taxes should be controlled in such a way so that you couldn't get Billionaires.
Re: Text on class vs race
All of those ideas have been tried, anyhow.
They've all mitigated the core problems, which are mainly technological, for 60 years of relative peace and prosperity, but probably cannot continue to be applied to the emerging economic structures that are an inevitable consequence of further progress in the theoretical and practical sciences.
Not getting into this further, I am not political.
They've all mitigated the core problems, which are mainly technological, for 60 years of relative peace and prosperity, but probably cannot continue to be applied to the emerging economic structures that are an inevitable consequence of further progress in the theoretical and practical sciences.
Not getting into this further, I am not political.
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it is possible to be apolitical and not support the class structure of society. I have no desire for upward mobility, I just want to live a quiet life.
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Me too.smoth wrote:it is possible to be apolitical and not support the class structure of society. I have no desire for upward mobility, I just want to live a quiet life.
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I should probably correct the one impression I made.
I am not in favor of class warfare or the like. I think that classes are an inevitable feature of social development, and what actually matters is not that there are classes, but who's in them, why, their goals, and their relative effectiveness. I take a very pragmatic view of classes as a concept, basically, as should anybody even remotely conversant in the findings of modern sociological and evolutionary science.
I don't really want to take this any further, though. It's very difficult to avoid getting into specific critique from here.
I just thought the article was a ridiculous waste of time, and a prime example of why the blogosphere has largely dumbed-down serious political thought even farther than mass media did. We have niche-market Neros like this, writing for their mainly upper-class, educated audience... selling self-effacement articles to well-meaning liberals, to remind them that they aren't liberal enough... while Rome's actively smoldering.
It makes me a little bit tetchy, that our polity is so stupid these days.
I am not in favor of class warfare or the like. I think that classes are an inevitable feature of social development, and what actually matters is not that there are classes, but who's in them, why, their goals, and their relative effectiveness. I take a very pragmatic view of classes as a concept, basically, as should anybody even remotely conversant in the findings of modern sociological and evolutionary science.
I don't really want to take this any further, though. It's very difficult to avoid getting into specific critique from here.
I just thought the article was a ridiculous waste of time, and a prime example of why the blogosphere has largely dumbed-down serious political thought even farther than mass media did. We have niche-market Neros like this, writing for their mainly upper-class, educated audience... selling self-effacement articles to well-meaning liberals, to remind them that they aren't liberal enough... while Rome's actively smoldering.
It makes me a little bit tetchy, that our polity is so stupid these days.
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Have you studied sociology and evolutionary science?Argh wrote:I should probably correct the one impression I made.
I am not in favor of class warfare or the like. I think that classes are an inevitable feature of social development, and what actually matters is not that there are classes, but who's in them, why, their goals, and their relative effectiveness. I take a very pragmatic view of classes as a concept, basically, as should anybody even remotely conversant in the findings of modern sociological and evolutionary science.
I don't really want to take this any further, though. It's very difficult to avoid getting into specific critique from here.
I just thought the article was a ridiculous waste of time, and a prime example of why the blogosphere has largely dumbed-down serious political thought even farther than mass media did. We have niche-market Neros like this, writing for their mainly upper-class, educated audience... selling self-effacement articles to well-meaning liberals, to remind them that they aren't liberal enough... while Rome's actively smoldering.
It makes me a little bit tetchy, that our polity is so stupid these days.
I disagree with your response almost entirely.
I also disagree with people who think they can just live peacefully and no one will touch them.
It is even less true now than before.
I do agree with the fact that classes are inevitable,at least at this point,but that does not mean we need to sit and do nothing.
There are always forces working to make the gap bigger thus other forces must work to make it smaller.
The moment you are happy with the way things are and relax is the moment you start worsening your situation.
Life and society are not static.
Either things improve or they become worse they don't just stand still.
Re: Text on class vs race
a 100% income tax should do itPanda wrote:I suppose something should be done to help more wealthy people get along with less wealthy people. The middle class is getting smaller over here and there will always be at least some poor people in any society. I'm not really sure about what could be done, though. More charity programs and better communication skills?
Re: Text on class vs race
I do desire upward mobility, I would like to be able to care for others and never have those around me experience some of the things I did. I would like to advance the legal and social status of those I feel akin to. Society is constructed, to some extent, in opposition to my desires. There are no simple solutions and yet all the mechanisms and institutions of our society arose from the attempted implementation of simple solutions - the framework is intrinsically flawed, not just in the economic sphere, but in all others, right down to the very binaries which people learn to operate within.
However, I will have what I desire, regardless of what society permits. If somebody can stop me than perhaps I deserve to be stopped. I plan to improve things where and as I can, but I fear I lack the resources to back up my will, so I will now lapse into quiet pessimism.
Morning, this is Neddie on a third day without sleep and no stimulants.
However, I will have what I desire, regardless of what society permits. If somebody can stop me than perhaps I deserve to be stopped. I plan to improve things where and as I can, but I fear I lack the resources to back up my will, so I will now lapse into quiet pessimism.
Morning, this is Neddie on a third day without sleep and no stimulants.
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The problem arises when people see a system and try and do anything they can to break it and use it to their advantage.
This is natural and cannot be argued against.
If im successful and My brother needs a job ill set him up good even if he is not qualified enough.Why?because how can i turn my back to him.
Point is,society needs to accept this and work to try and monitor and build rules so that people don't have to face such hard decisions and instead are forced to do everything by the rules ensuring the best people,best product,best policies and laws are chosen.
It's of the outmost importance IMO to make sure as hard as possible that only the best person for the job gets the job,than there is only the problem of calibrating how much time do you want your society to spend on working and how much do you want to motivate people who work a lot and how much do you want to motivate innovators.
First identify the real core of the problem think how to solve it,implement the solution and the system will calibrate itself.
laws and rules tend to stagnate with the progress of humanity so obviously one of the major points of any society is monitoring them and making sure they are adequate now and changing them if they need to be changed while inspecting the entire system and the implications of each change on the entire system as opposed to one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
ATM even the most advanced societies respond post factum as opposed to try and predict problems in the future while inspecting the system as whole.
This is natural and cannot be argued against.
If im successful and My brother needs a job ill set him up good even if he is not qualified enough.Why?because how can i turn my back to him.
Point is,society needs to accept this and work to try and monitor and build rules so that people don't have to face such hard decisions and instead are forced to do everything by the rules ensuring the best people,best product,best policies and laws are chosen.
It's of the outmost importance IMO to make sure as hard as possible that only the best person for the job gets the job,than there is only the problem of calibrating how much time do you want your society to spend on working and how much do you want to motivate people who work a lot and how much do you want to motivate innovators.
First identify the real core of the problem think how to solve it,implement the solution and the system will calibrate itself.
laws and rules tend to stagnate with the progress of humanity so obviously one of the major points of any society is monitoring them and making sure they are adequate now and changing them if they need to be changed while inspecting the entire system and the implications of each change on the entire system as opposed to one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
ATM even the most advanced societies respond post factum as opposed to try and predict problems in the future while inspecting the system as whole.
Re: Text on class vs race
neddiedrow wrote:I do desire upward mobility, I would like to be able to care for others and never have those around me experience some of the things I did. I would like to advance the legal and social status of those I feel akin to. Society is constructed, to some extent, in opposition to my desires. There are no simple solutions and yet all the mechanisms and institutions of our society arose from the attempted implementation of simple solutions - the framework is intrinsically flawed, not just in the economic sphere, but in all others, right down to the very binaries which people learn to operate within.
However, I will have what I desire, regardless of what society permits. If somebody can stop me than perhaps I deserve to be stopped. I plan to improve things where and as I can, but I fear I lack the resources to back up my will, so I will now lapse into quiet pessimism.
Morning, this is Neddie on a third day without sleep and no stimulants.
I suppose you could think of it this way: If society weren't the way it was you probably wouldn't have as much of an opportunity to do the things that you can do.
However, I think that the main thing that's really bothering you is that some people like to twist things around in order to fulfill their own personal agendas, agendas which are designed to where they allow the person to be an asshole to others and get some sort of reward for it, kind of like how some people cheat on tests and get good grades while everyone else has to work hard for their grade.
That sort of thing irritates a lot of people because it makes them think, why do I bother working so hard if this guy is going to be rewarded for doing something that will ultimately drag everyone else down. After watching a person act like an asshole and be rewarded for it so many times you may feel hopeless and start to blame yourself because, let's face it, there is a limit to how much shit a person can take even if the assholes don't realize it.
You should try to get some rest, Neddie. Sometimes, one has to fight in the shade (for people who haven't seen the movie, that idea is from "300"). Good morning.
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In what respect? Upward mobility in a capitalist society is inherently limited; only a certain amount of people can make higher incomes as otherwise the system collapses. In addition, actual upward mobility is very hard to attain; the vast majority of people don't even have a chance of making more than about $300,000, no matter how much work they do. The myth that BOOTSTRAPS is something to build a country round is really destructive and horrible.neddiedrow wrote:I do desire upward mobility,
socialism! too much of people's lives is based entirely around their birth status, even in first world countries with massive prosperityI would like to be able to care for others and never have those around me experience some of the things I did. I would like to advance the legal and social status of those I feel akin to.
People thinking in binary is a general human problem, although there's no incredibly easy quick fix many first world problems are not insurmountable, of course it's constructed in opposition to your desires it's all about the upper class keeping themselves in power. It just kind of sucks when you're in a country where they don't even try to throw you a sopSociety is constructed, to some extent, in opposition to my desires. There are no simple solutions and yet all the mechanisms and institutions of our society arose from the attempted implementation of simple solutions - the framework is intrinsically flawed, not just in the economic sphere, but in all others, right down to the very binaries which people learn to operate within.
No you won't.However, I will have what I desire, regardless of what society permits.
whatIf somebody can stop me than perhaps I deserve to be stopped.
pessimism doesn't mean you should give up btwI plan to improve things where and as I can, but I fear I lack the resources to back up my will, so I will now lapse into quiet pessimism.
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Of course I'm not giving up, I didn't say I was fading into a fatalist torpor, just quiet pessimism.
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tombom just made me hard.