Revert gl.Text

[TheFatController]

I'd also like to raise the point that the time invested in arguing the point in this thread is greater than the time needed to fix the majority of widgets.

The time invested in reverting this change is way less than the time invested in fixing the majority of widgets (and the engine it seems)?

[AF]

Reverting to a buggy version of GL.Text and removing features would be wrong, so the two are not comparable.

[zwzsg]

Can someone explains me, in understandable words and without implied references, what was "buggy" in gl.Text? And was it even buggy in the first place? Some says an accident happened, others that a bug got fixed, but all I saw was that text y offset got changed from one arbitrary convention to another arbitrary conventio.

Accidental the default text alignment has changed, before it was descender now it's baseline.

I don't see what makes using descender more a bug than using baseline. But I do see how accidentaly changing the default behavior breaks tons of stuff.

[lurker]

We just didn't focus on the same words of the same jK post.

Well, even if he doesn't want to change it now, that doesn't change the fact that you can't ask for approval and opinions before an accident.


Most of the time, I would say text is aligned in a box, not to a line, so baseline isn't the right way to do it. I would say it's best to vertically center, but the descender is what has the lowest coordinate, so it makes some sense to use. Can you explain why baseline is a better default?

(And have you added an opcode for descender yet?)

[AF]

As I understand it, correct me if Im wrong jk:

If the default alignment is descender, won't the text be written along the descender line, and so it wont fit neatly into the square if it contains any letters like qypgj etc

Its a subtle bug that doesn't show when 2 lines of text are there because theyre both offset by the same amount. When you add other things into the mix it shows up a subtle ways and its not straight forward.

You wanted your text to fit into a nice rectangle, it never did fit into a rectangle, well it did if you omitted yjpq etc from your text. Now the whole thing fits into the rectangle.

[Regret]

You wanted your text to fit into a nice rectangle, it never did fit into a rectangle, well it did if you omitted yjpq etc from your text. Now the whole thing fits into the rectangle.

It did fit into a rectangle before, now it doesn't. That's what I based both my UI text displaying on.

[lurker]

Descender is the bottom of the font zone. It is always in the same spot. Textbottom is what will screw you up.

[SirMaverick]

You are unlikely to get new spring release anytime soon.. unless more serious problems appear..
So why not just fixing widgets for it?

There will be an engine fix for that. Either a revert. Or a fix for all engine GUI elements.

http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/ew3mk0/bars.jpg
top is 0.79.1.2, bottom is 0.80.2

[Regret]

Why is it better to spend a long time fixing what was not broken instead of pushing out a quick revert of this new bug?

[SirMaverick]

Unmaintained widgets DIE
Its as simple as that, doesnt matter wether it's a change to text/font rendering or another API change, widgets die.

Dead code is dead.

Why is it better to spend a long time fixing what was not broken[...]?

The API changed.

[smoth]

There is work on a fix release, this one had a lot of issues regret. Rather than being so combative please try and be a little kinder. The devs are volunteers not employees.

[Regret]

There is work on a fix release, this one had a lot of issues regret. Rather than being so combative please try and be a little kinder. The devs are volunteers not employees.

Combative? Excuse me for complaining when someone decides without any logic to screw up what I and countless others worked on in their free time.

And yes, I know jK used the word 'accidental'. But I don't really believe that as his next sentence says 'he likes it this way'.

[AF]

tbh you should have noticed the bugged rendering behaviour rather than accommodating it.

You could already have fixed a lot of it already in the time you spent ranting in this thread.

[smoth]

Regret that doesn't make your behavior any more acceptable. While you were typing out that little outburst I was writing out this:



How about this perspective? We have some questions and I feel there are answers...

There is no standard on font alignment?
Incorrect, because there was no standard one was established based on the descender alignment.

Why was the change made?
apparently it was an accident initially and the change felt more logical to align to baseline. One I don't disagree with but still.

Why is breaking the widgets an issue?
+ It is an issue because the people doing a lot of this work will have to go and make adjustments costing them a lot of time they could be using to further advance other work.
+ It is an issue because, there is the sentiment that descender was the standard.
+ It is an issue because there is not even a way to support the descender to maintain compatibility.

I honestly like the baseline stuff, could it be possible to perhaps just keep the old behavior and add a tag to allow for baseline alignment for those of us who like it?

[Regret]

Regret that doesn't make your behavior any more acceptable.

I have no interest in your personal insecurities, if you feel like I broke any forum rules, go ahead and press report post button, otherwise quit attacking me.

[smoth]

I am not attacking you. I am trying to outright tell you that your behavior alienates the very people you are pushing for a change. Sure it might get one or two things done to barge in a room and bark loudly but it does not help you get anything done in the long run.

By all means argue with me though, because it isn't helping the discussion of whether or not the change should stay, go or maybe have further modification. Because getting into a pissing match is not solving the issue here.

[smoth]

How about this perspective? We have some questions and I feel there are answers...

There is no standard on font alignment?
Incorrect, because there was no standard one was established based on the descender alignment.

Why was the change made?
apparently it was an accident initially and the change felt more logical to align to baseline. One I don't disagree with but still.

Why is breaking the widgets an issue?
+ It is an issue because the people doing a lot of this work will have to go and make adjustments costing them a lot of time they could be using to further advance other work.
+ It is an issue because, there is the sentiment that descender was the standard.
+ It is an issue because there is not even a way to support the descender to maintain compatibility.

I honestly like the baseline stuff, could it be possible to perhaps just keep the old behavior and add a tag to allow for baseline alignment for those of us who like it?

[Regret]

By all means argue with me though, because it isn't helping the discussion of whether or not the change should stay, go or maybe have further modification. Because getting into a pissing match is not solving the issue here.

I am not arguing with you.

[jK]

Finally a real discussion with pros and contras \o/

Most of the time, I would say text is aligned in a box, not to a line, so baseline isn't the right way to do it. I would say it's best to vertically center, but the descender is what has the lowest coordinate, so it makes some sense to use. Can you explain why baseline is a better default?

I don't know if aligning in a box is the most famous usage, but it affects the projects of Regret, zwzsg (both very loud crying here) and Meltrax. So they should no matter what change their code to vertical alignment ('v').
Now the question remains for the other ~10% of widgets (most widgets don't even render text at all). My experience is that you very often align stuff next to boxes (e.g. teamcolor), bars or icons, so you want to use baseline for alignment (else text without deep chars will 'fly').
Also the biggest pro for baseline is it's font independent, so you can change the font and it will ALWAYS ALIGN THE SAME!
This is a big problem in the engine itself, so depending on your selected font the resbar captions already don't fit and the tooltip can display a different number of lines, this is an engine problem/bug! It doesn't use the correct flags, same as the widgets (cuz when those GUIs were written they didn't even exist).
So the biggest problem is that most stuff was coded with no alignment in mind at all (just cuz there was none).

(And have you added an opcode for descender yet?)

I think i will take "g" for ground or i will just take "d" and change the opcode for baseline (it seems i am the only one who uses it atm).

I honestly like the baseline stuff, could it be possible to perhaps just keep the old behavior and add a tag to allow for baseline alignment for those of us who like it?

There was a already "d" for baseline. It's just that most ppl code without any alignment in mind, so with descender it will break on font changes, with baseline it wouldn't.

I am not attacking you. I am trying to outright tell you that your behavior alienates the very people you are pushing for a change. Sure it might get one or two things done to barge in a room and bark loudly but it does not help you get anything done in the long run.

By all means argue with me though, because it isn't helping the discussion of whether or not the change should stay, go or maybe have further modification. Because getting into a pissing match is not solving the issue here.

I am so happy that finally some ppl discuss the change itself, w/o just barking - something I ignore, cuz we aren't in a kindergarten here, where the one who cries the most gets the most attention.

[Regret]

My experience is that you very often align stuff next to boxes

This is precisely the thing that your change broke. People made their widgets to align into their rectangles. But now the text moved and so they are no longer aligned into the rectangles.