Project 10 in 2010 - 1,000 players by the end of 2010

[el_matarife]

I've considered tutorial missions, but I know I always skip them in most RTS and just jump in head first. While that strategy may work in most RTS, in most Spring mods it is a recipe for disaster given the really brutal learning curve.

[CarRepairer]

I've considered tutorial missions, but I know I always skip them in most RTS and just jump in head first. While that strategy may work in most RTS, in most Spring mods it is a recipe for disaster given the really brutal learning curve.

Which is why I made an in-game tutorial that you can use while in multiplayer games. I am the same way.

[JohannesH]

I've considered tutorial missions, but I know I always skip them in most RTS and just jump in head first. While that strategy may work in most RTS, in most Spring mods it is a recipe for disaster given the really brutal learning curve.

You would get butchered at first in any rts if you went straight to multiplayer... Playing a rts campaign rarely requires as much knowledge.

[el_matarife]

Playing a rts campaign rarely requires as much knowledge.

I usually skip RTS campaigns because they give you "bad habits" since the balance is rarely if ever the same as multiplayer, and AIs never play the way humans do. An ingame tutorial or hint system would be very useful, particularly in avoiding "noob traps" like energy stall or not building anti-nuke or anti-air.

[CarRepairer]

An ingame tutorial or hint system would be very useful,

What a great idea. I agree that it would really be useful. Someone should make it happen, in the future, relative to now. Because it doesn't exist right now. I can't wait until that day comes, eventually. When that happens, it will change the face of Spring. But right now it hasn't happened yet so everything is calm and quiet.

Maybe one day.

Edit: I am so excited for the future.

[very_bad_soldier]

Playing a rts campaign rarely requires as much knowledge.

I usually skip RTS campaigns because they give you "bad habits" since the balance is rarely if ever the same as multiplayer, and AIs never play the way humans do.

Thats already advanced level IMO. Its still useful just for learning about the very basics: how does the ecosystem work, which factions are there, which units, camera control, hotkeys etc.
Most noobs dont know about modinfo-website and trying stuff out by starting spring.exe is very annoying unless you know about "/cheat".

[el_matarife]

Long sarcastic rant

Just saying it doesn't exist for every mod, no reason to get snarky. I know several mods have a tutorial or help system but there isn't a generic one in Spring itself yet, and until that becomes true I am going to talk about it as something that may happen one day.

[JohannesH]

Long sarcastic rant

Just saying it doesn't exist for every mod, no reason to get snarky. I know several mods have a tutorial or help system but there isn't a generic one in Spring itself yet, and until that becomes true I am going to talk about it as something that may happen one day.

Umm, what would be in a generic spring tutorial?

[Nonor]

The whole campaigns & single player mode thing isn't only for learning to play, but to catch the new player interrest on the game, to give him the desire to play more, to give him... the fun...

Personally, when I see how on-line play is actually going on with spring, I totally understand why most of the new players aren't caught by the game and quickly leaves. Spring (I mean, the mods) is really hard to play when you're just starting, even if you knew TA before.
YES there's tutorials & wikis & replays, but this is not what the problem is about, right ? The original question is, how to get more people to play. The question is a marketing question. I think new players are just looking for fun, and we should try to focus on that. Spending hours in firstly installing the game (this is another point to resolve but it was already being said) and then, trying to understand it, isn't fun when you only have the ability to play classical multiplayers games.

With a good single mode this wouldn't be the case, because this is generally how we discover and get interrested by a RTS : a single mode (tutorial, campaign, whatever), which progressively introduce the units, the gameplay, all of this with a story, with dialogs & characters... That is catchy. That slowly learns the game to the new player, and with a lot of fun. The player wants to finish the mission, to see what's going on after with the story, to discover the new units he didn't see yet... While progressing in the campaign, he gets challenged, he gets interrested... And he gets skills. Not by reading a tutorial and playing flat games against AIs, but simply by having fun. THIS makes all the difference.

All of that seems obvious to me (I've tried to make many friends playing spring, all of them gave up because it was "too difficult"), but anyway, it's just my opinion after all.

[AF]

The only generic stuff for spring should be stuff concerning springs APIs, formats, and other development stuff.

Actually playing spring should be specific to the game, since normally it would be specific to the game being played anyway.

[CarRepairer]

Long sarcastic rant

Just saying it doesn't exist for every mod, no reason to get snarky. I know several mods have a tutorial or help system but there isn't a generic one in Spring itself yet, and until that becomes true I am going to talk about it as something that may happen one day.

My tutorial tells you how to zoom, pan and ready up. Then it moves onto the gameplay lessons. I don't see a reason to go beyond that in terms of "generic" spring stuff.

[el_matarife]

The generic hotkeys that work across every mod would be pretty good to cover, specifically F2, L, F4, [ and ], Z and X for building spacing, and the various combinations of shift, alt, and control that let you build multiple buildings in different formations.

[JohannesH]

The generic hotkeys that work across every mod would be pretty good to cover, specifically F2, L, F4, [ and ], Z and X for building spacing, and the various combinations of shift, alt, and control that let you build multiple buildings in different formations.

You cant expect every game to use those default binds (I dont), and they are easy to include in a tutorial/manual of a single game.

[123vtemp]

If someone did not point this out... Single player give new people a chance to understand game mechanics and balancing(a very crusial stage in any RTS game). The tactics and strategies get implemented in multilayer only after they actually know what things are.

There are very few Highly successful RTS games that have not had a very Effective Single player. It is the boot camp for Multilayer.

[Sindwiller]

If someone did not point this out... Single player give new people a chance to understand game mechanics and balancing(a very crusial stage in any RTS game). The tactics and strategies get implemented in multilayer only after they actually know what things are.

There are very few Highly successful RTS games that have not had a very Effective Single player. It is the boot camp for Multilayer.

Precisely.

[Caydr]

Include better start scripts? Pretty much all of the current ones can be eliminated, and should be replaced with ones that give more AI opponents/allies, etc...

An ideal solution would be a TAish skirmish mode screen that allows customization for all that but just making a few scripts for typical things would be easier.

SpringLobby kinda accomplishes this but it's a labyrinth of doom too...

[zwzsg]

Include better start scripts? Pretty much all of the current ones can be eliminated, and should be replaced with ones that give more AI opponents/allies, etc...

An ideal solution would be a TAish skirmish mode screen that allows customization for all that but just making a few scripts for typical things would be easier.

Already done in KP.





Two working missions, and skirmish generator specially taylored to the mod.

Also made a special restrained AI, that stop building anything when it has more than the player, so that newb have all the time they want to build their first units and factories. Then I realised that AI was not yet easy enough to kill, so I made another AI that doesn't build anything but what it had then lost (but that one obviously requires a mission where it starts with some units).

To help newb, I also made an automatic tip dispenser, that analyse the situation and give relevant advices (well, kinda ). Sorta like CA's NubTron, but less invasive (the windows's normally smaller, I wheeled it up for screenshot.)

[CarRepairer]

Include better start scripts? Pretty much all of the current ones can be eliminated, and should be replaced with ones that give more AI opponents/allies, etc...

An ideal solution would be a TAish skirmish mode screen that allows customization for all that but just making a few scripts for typical things would be easier.

Already done in KP.

NO IT DOESN'T COUNT IF IT'S NOT GENERIC!! I HOPE ONE DAY SOMEONE MAKES THIS BUT UNTIL THEN IT DOESN'T COUNT!!!!!

</elmatarife>

[zwzsg]

It's just a matter of other moders catching up. You don't even have to do something as complicated, a couple startscripts and a menu to choose which one to Spring.Restart would probably enough and much quicker to do.

[Neddie]

Generic is not doable in a satisfactory manner, games and mods can and in some cases do vary greatly.