Old sea

[mongus]

http://replays.adune.nl/?1536

More fun?

(surely that game was for me).

surely subs can do better if they had not been taken away the homming of their torpedoes.

[babbles]

[01:42:56] <Lere> 4-5 old skeeters kill one destroyer
[01:43:07] <Lere> one old destroyer, new one is shit too
[01:43:15] <[Cox]Length> one old destroy rapes
[01:43:27] <[CoX]Babbles> lere wtf are you on?
[01:43:33] <[CoX]Babbles> old destroyer raped everything
[01:43:33] <Lere> the fact you didnt play it/know it doesnt make it shit babbles
[01:43:38] <[CoX]Babbles> sigh
[01:43:46] <Lere> i repeat
[01:43:47] <Lere> 4-5 old skeeters kill one destroyer
[01:43:54] <[CoX]Babbles> what mod?
[01:44:00] <Lere> just just have to know how to play
[01:44:09] <Lere> old xta balance
[01:44:10] <[CoX]Babbles> xta v8.1?
[01:44:12] <[Cox]Length> face palm
[01:44:23] <Lere> not sure if 8.1 had the balance well
[01:44:35] <Lere> well
[01:44:53] <Lere> discussion old navy with you is a lost issue
[01:44:57] <[Cox]Length> old destroyer had like morty times 5
[01:45:06] <[CoX]Babbles> any discussion with you is a lost issue
[01:45:08] <Lere> im just complaining about the low damage skeeters have against air
[01:45:10] <[Cox]Length> cost as much as a hovercraft plateform
[01:45:32] <[CoX]Babbles> nor was xta v8.1 the sea balance lere is on about?
[01:45:37] <Lere> i usually disagree to you babbles, and at times im rigth
[01:45:49] <Lere> is that what you dont like? to be argued?
[01:45:52] <[1uP]leothebrave> so is xta just like ta?\
[01:46:15] <[CoX]Babbles> no I dont mind an argument about balance
[01:46:26] <[CoX]Babbles> when you make stupid comments
[01:46:31] <[Cox]Length> yes i think so babbles
[01:46:32] <[Cox]Length> 8.1
[01:46:33] <[CoX]Babbles> and then backl them up with
[01:46:47] <[CoX]Babbles> "you didnt play the old balance therefore I win"
[01:46:51] <[CoX]Babbles> despite the fact I did
[01:46:57] <[CoX]Babbles> it just makes you look like an idiot
[01:46:58] <Lere> you did play it 2 times?
[01:47:07] <[CoX]Babbles> it was thefirst mod I played
[01:47:08] <Admiral_Faust> he played it more than 2 times
[01:47:08] <[CoX]Babbles> and if you really
[01:47:12] <[CoX]Babbles> really want this discussion
[01:47:13] <Lere> i know you tested it once or twice with other coxes
[01:47:16] <[CoX]Babbles> I will host it
[01:47:17] <[CoX]Babbles> no
[01:47:17] <Lere> that is not PLAYING it
[01:47:21] <[CoX]Babbles> I played it
[01:47:23] <[CoX]Babbles> when it was out
[01:47:28] <[CoX]Babbles> and it was official
[01:47:51] <[CoX]Babbles> and I didnt "test" it
[01:47:53] <Lere> well host it if you like
[01:47:59] <[CoX]Babbles> I showed jools what it was like
[01:48:05] <[CoX]Babbles> and we played sea
[01:48:08] <[CoX]Babbles> and it was just awful
[01:48:20] <Lere> thats what you say
[01:48:22] <Lere> i say it was ok
[01:48:47] <[CoX]Babbles> do you want me to host you xta v8.1?

[02:18:48] <Lere> that was MUCH more fun that actual sea
[02:18:56] <[CoX]Bubbles> no it wasnt
[02:19:01] <Lere> destroyers, while more powerfull
[02:19:06] <Lere> didnt dominate the game
[02:19:22] <[CoX]Bubbles> well they did
[02:19:25] <[CoX]Bubbles> seeing as I made one
[02:19:28] <[CoX]Bubbles> killed about 7 scouts
[02:19:32] <[CoX]Bubbles> then retreated for healing
[02:19:36] <Lere> you won, as usual in sea battles, bc i left too many wrecks in your side
[02:19:40] <Lere> that is how old sea was
[02:19:41] <[CoX]Bubbles> lurkers where a pile of shit
[02:19:51] <Lere> not new sea does not leave the wercks all the time
[02:20:01] <Lere> yeah lurkers .-.
[02:20:05] <Lere> the problem is
[02:20:11] <Lere> stupid noize
[02:20:23] <Lere> took the tracking out of their torpedoes
[02:20:47] <Lere> so they are quite less effective in this version of the mod
[02:20:51] <Lere> than what they used to
[02:20:54] <Lere> also
[02:21:05] <Lere> those 4 skeeters at the beguining
[02:21:11] <Lere> would have killed the destroyer
[02:21:29] <Lere> if you didnt cover it with other skeeters
[02:21:29] <[CoX]Bubbles> no they wouldnt
[02:21:33] <Lere> they would
[02:21:42] <Lere> you were retreating
[02:21:53] <[CoX]Bubbles> just 'cos I was retreating
[02:21:57] <[CoX]Bubbles> doesnt mean I would lose
[02:22:45] <Lere> you would have lost that destroyer
[02:22:52] <Lere> anything else is lies
[02:23:22] <[CoX]Bubbles> I would have just retreated
[02:23:26] <[CoX]Bubbles> waited for you to follow
[02:23:29] <[CoX]Bubbles> plowed back into you
[02:24:22] <[CoX]Bubbles> but oh well
[02:24:27] <[CoX]Bubbles> you're the xta god
[02:24:29] <[CoX]Bubbles> you're the sea god
[02:24:34] <[CoX]Bubbles> you know how it was back in the day
[02:24:40] <[CoX]Bubbles> you could beat anyone!
[02:24:51] <[CoX]Bubbles> despite getting destroyed by someone you didnt think played it

[01:52:04] <Lere> pass?
[01:52:14] <[CoX]Bubbles> sea
[01:57:22] <Admiral_Faust> u guys should dual in rl
[01:57:28] <Admiral_Faust> winner sets policy
[02:16:26] * [CoW]Error323 has left #xta (Quit)
[02:17:17] * [RoX]lurker has left #xta (Quit: connection lost)
[02:20:51] * [RoX]lurker has joined #xta
[02:25:08] <Lere> it was a gg
[02:25:11] <Lere> you played well
[02:25:20] <Lere> i did ok
[02:25:42] <[CoX]Jools> did u decide on how many skeeters to kill des?
[02:25:47] <Lere> and that match endind was just a matter of luck imo
[02:25:53] <Lere> i know its 4-5
[02:25:57] <Lere> and im sea god
[02:26:03] <Lere> (if you ask babbles)
[02:26:04] <[CoX]Jools> in this or in ota?
[02:26:15] <[CoX]Jools> you did well in sea last game
[02:26:15] <Lere> no, in ota im not sure
[02:26:32] <Lere> http://replays.adune.nl/?1536
[02:27:03] <Lere> old sea was SO much fun
[02:27:08] <Lere> i had lots of fun in that test game
[02:27:09] <[CoX]Jools> well i was good in ota sea
[02:27:09] <[CoX]Babbles> if you constantly had los/radar and micro'd them out of the way of the dessie
[02:27:15] <[CoX]Babbles> then yes, you'd kill a dessie
[02:27:24] <[CoX]Babbles> but as soon as the dessie gets closeit just mauls the scouts
[02:27:26] <Lere> well i will tell you the trick
[02:27:30] <Lere> you must ...
[02:27:40] <[CoX]Jools> in ota sea the scouts kill self if too close
[02:27:44] <Lere> drive the skeeter into the destroyer, for them to make damage with the guns
[02:27:50] <[CoX]Babbles> yes
[02:27:54] <Lere> that way you maximize the damage
[02:28:00] <Lere> thats all the trick.
[02:28:01] <[CoX]Babbles> but that just ends up with my microing the destroyer away
[02:28:03] <[CoX]Babbles> shooting
[02:28:08] <[CoX]Babbles> and killing the destryoer
[02:28:09] <[CoX]Babbles> err
[02:28:11] <[CoX]Babbles> scout
[02:28:14] <Lere> no
[02:28:16] <[CoX]Babbles> thus killing the scout
[02:28:20] <[CoX]Jools> what i dopnt like with new sea is the vangaurd
[02:28:23] <Lere> you are wrong babbles
[02:28:31] <Lere> scouts MUST be close to destroyer to kill it
[02:28:43] <[CoX]Babbles> and yet it still cant
[02:28:48] <[CoX]Babbles> if the player just micros it away
[02:28:57] <[CoX]Babbles> you tried it
[02:29:03] <Lere> if you hadnt retreated they would have done it
[02:29:03] <[CoX]Babbles> you got about 10 scouts up close
[02:29:13] <Lere> the cool thing about old sea was the micro
[02:29:13] <[CoX]Babbles> my destroyer just destroyed 8 of them and then you ran off
[02:29:18] <Lere> you must manouver all your ships
[02:29:41] <Lere> so they work as you with them do, maximizing damage, avoiding shots
[02:29:44] <[CoX]Babbles> because destroyers cost 1.1k metal
[02:29:49] <[CoX]Babbles> as do subs
[02:29:50] <Lere> way cooler than patroll ships
[02:29:58] <Lere> lies
[02:30:03] <[CoX]Babbles> so you lose one, your enemy reclaims game over
[02:30:04] <Lere> your destroyer killed like
[02:30:16] <Lere> yes the real strategy
[02:30:24] <Lere> is to try to kill ships near your own base
[02:30:32] <Lere> and to LOSE ships near your own base
[02:30:36] <Lere> so you get the metal
[02:30:37] <[CoX]Bubbles> well duh
[02:30:43] <Lere> bc sea is so expensive in metal
[02:30:55] <Lere> and no, it was 4 skeeters
[02:31:03] <Lere> and i had lost none i think.
[02:31:10] <Lere> the destroyer was half hp or less
[02:31:15] <[CoX]Bubbles> later on
[02:31:17] <[CoX]Bubbles> you had about 10
[02:31:21] <Lere> lies
[02:31:24] <[CoX]Bubbles> tried to do your ultimate tactic
[02:31:24] <Lere> not in the
[02:31:27] <[CoX]Bubbles> and just got slain
[02:31:28] <Lere> first encounter
[02:31:35] <Lere> oh slain
[02:31:36] <Lere> lol
[02:31:37] <[CoX]Bubbles> because you outranged me
[02:31:47] <Lere> i didnt got slain
[02:32:01] <Lere> it was just you reclaiming more metal than me
[02:32:03] <Lere> it was a gg
[02:32:11] <Lere> either of us could have won
[02:32:32] <[CoX]Bubbles> except I had 2 destroyers, a t2 AA ship and a cruiser
[02:35:03] <Lere> thats bc you played better
[02:35:11] <Lere> and had more metal i left ther in your base
[02:35:37] <Lere> i always lose bc of leaving too much metal at enemys base (in sea)

[mongus]

from which we can extract:

old destroyers die against 4-5 skeeters
(you must "drive into" (ram?) the destroyer, to maximize the damage with the lasers)

old destroyers DONT rape everything (watch replay).

New sea DOES NOT leave metal wrecks all the time!! (very bad for sea economy).

Im sea god!!!!

Babbles does generally good, not in vain he is one of the top players.



watch the game, then comment.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

old sea was shockingly wank
new sea is poor but at least has more unit variety.

for sea to really ever be fun, unit costs need to be lower- closer to land costs- so players actually have more than about 6 ships in a battle

[Neddie]

I probably shouldn't say anything because I don't play XTA anymore, but XTA has always had better sea play than AA/BA, partially due to the roles, partially due to the limited numbers of units focusing micro.

[Gota]

IMO,people say Sea sucks not cause of the units but cause of the fact the commander is useless and cant dgun or walk normally and cause sea has no hills.
I don't think it's less fun.
I would want a ship that can walk on land like in supcom.
2 such units for both arm and core could be awesome.

[babbles]

IMO Sea sucks not cause of the units but cause of the fact the commander is useless and cant dgun or walk normally and cause sea has no hills.

I like it despite this, and I'm the most comm using player around.

[JohannesH]

I would want a ship that can walk on land like in supcom.

Like pelican?

[babbles]

IMO,people say Sea sucks not cause of the units but cause of the fact the commander is useless and cant dgun or walk normally and cause sea has no hills.
I don't think it's less fun.
I would want a ship that can walk on land like in supcom.
2 such units for both arm and core could be awesome.

they're called hovercraft?

[Gota]

IMO,people say Sea sucks not cause of the units but cause of the fact the commander is useless and cant dgun or walk normally and cause sea has no hills.
I don't think it's less fun.
I would want a ship that can walk on land like in supcom.
2 such units for both arm and core could be awesome.

they're called hovercraft?

Oo
"IMO,people say Sea sucks ".
Sea.
"SEA".

[babbles]

You want a ship that goes on land.

Hovercraft go on land and sea. Hovercraft can be built on both land and sea. Surely this is the unit you're talking of?

[Noruas]

Hovercrafts are small and dodgy, i think he wants the "Landboat."

[Gota]

There are vehicles that go underwater as well,even though there are hovers.
Land has units that go in the water why cant water have units that go on land.

[babbles]

like the garpike?

[Noruas]

I think he wants something big like godzilla.

[pintle]

As I requested earlier, allow gantry to be built in water shallow enough for krog to move!

[manolo_]

I think he wants something big like godzilla.

i requested that for such a long time, implement godzilla with roaar sing-button

[Jools]

Maybe XTA should have a leprechaun, a sort of an irish fairy monster, who lives in the river. :)

[mongus]

yeah loll new krog in water super.

gota you are the king when it comes to oftopic talk/derailing threads, i admire your hard work.

you could even make a new thread with all that well tougth material.


Now, back ontopic, the only one who really answered something related was IK.

old sea was shockingly wank
new sea is poor but at least has more unit variety.

for sea to really ever be fun, unit costs need to be lower- closer to land costs- so players actually have more than about 6 ships in a battle

Im ok, and even happy with unit variety. But i know mods with way higher kbot and vehicle unit variety and those mod still are bland, bad thought, unbalanced, incredibly fast peaced, in other words, they suck.
Xta, does not have a wide array of units, in general, and still it has a better gameplay than other mods.
Actually, the only part which has changed, in terms of variety, is sea.
So variety is surely cool, but i wouldt change solid gameplay for variety.

for sea to really ever be fun, unit costs need to be lower- closer to land costs- so players actually have more than about 6 ships in a battle

That sounds like BA:
Cheaper faster/easy dying units

It surprises me that you dont remember what was naval battle.

Sea balance was exactly the opposite of what you suggest. It was about MORE EXPENSIVE, BIGGER, MORE POWERFULL, SLOWER units.

No im not trolling, that was exaclty the difference between land game and naval game.
Naval game was always slower, highly based on manouvering (cant stress this more) and reclaiming of the units wrecks as it basics.

This can be observed in the game posted above:
-There was some manouvering: skeeters moving over destroyer, Destroyer scaping to base...
-The winner team reclaimed more wreck: i lost too many units at enemy territory (big mistake).
-The game was slower than a land battle: there wasnt specially complex battles or much teching, yet the game took 22 minutes.

The low number of units in battle, increases the importance of manouvering and tactics.


Has anyone watched the game posted?
what you think of it?

[1v0ry_k1ng]

sea units have t2 land unit metal costs.
they are built with a t1 economy.
I really dont think metal stalling to build one unit = fun bro