Minimap idea

[sp2danny72]

I had a hard time decifereing it, no offence, but the way i understand it is that when you scout a base, the base's territory is marked off with the colour of the team. So you can see the general area of the enemy's central base, but wont be able to keep tabs on the entire thing with out continual scouting.

Exacly. Was it hard to decifer? Well, an picture says more than a thousand words; Look how sexy it could look:



Now go vote 'yes' ... ;)

[Min3mat]

christ give up already noone wants this stupidity

[AF]

It's controversial and the flames a bit more than just this. I expect this to go on for another 5 pages ......

[sp2danny72]

christ give up already noone wants this stupidity

well, currently its 7-7, so im calling for 'make it an option'

[SwiftSpear]

christ give up already noone wants this stupidity

I disagree. If I HAVE to abode with ghost buildings I want minimap awareness as well as macromap awareness. The minimap is SUPPOSED to highlight everything that the macromap conveys in summery, not conveniently hide some things and properly convey others. In my opinion they are an attached feature, for a proper mod you either do both or none.

Personally I PREFER no ghost building to begin with, but I'm not going to call to sabatoge the current method in protest, that's just left wing stupid style shit.

[Min3mat]

C'MON i mean u know roughly where ur enemy is, click on the minimap, see the stuff, fire @ it. u dont want the game to show u everything the whole point of a strategy game is u r thinkning ALL THE TIME

[SwiftSpear]

C'MON i mean u know roughly where ur enemy is, click on the minimap, see the stuff, fire @ it. u dont want the game to show u everything the whole point of a strategy game is u r thinkning ALL THE TIME

With ghosting the game DOES show me everything weather I want it to or not. The point is the minimap is behind the times. Ghosting removes micromanagement responsibilites in scouting, that should go hand in hand with the removal of the nessesity of confirming everything shown on the minimap with the macromap.

Like I say before, you should either decide scouting is supposed to take micromanagement skill, or scouting is not supposed to take micromanagement skill. Go either or, both is just gross.

[Storm]

well, currently its 7-7, so im calling for 'make it an option'

Look, I don't care what kind of vote it is right now because these ideas are being suggested at all, which renders the vote useless. Think about it, this place is full of people that want to the game more or less play itself and they just keep voting through just about anything as long as it make the game simplier... "OH KOOL I DONT HAEV TO SCOUT ANYMROE!!"... If this was the first, or at least tenth suggestion on how to destroy the game even more, I wouldn't have cared, honestly.

A 7-7 vote means nothing. A 15-7 vote may call for eventual consideration. A 27-7 vote is just about done. You think the vote of 14 people should decide the fate of the game that several hundred play?

[SwiftSpear]

well, currently its 7-7, so im calling for 'make it an option'

Look, I don't care what kind of vote it is right now because these ideas are being suggested at all, which renders the vote useless. Think about it, this place is full of people that want to the game more or less play itself and they just keep voting through just about anything as long as it make the game simplier... "OH KOOL I DONT HAEV TO SCOUT ANYMROE!!"... If this was the first, or at least tenth suggestion on how to destroy the game even more, I wouldn't have cared, honestly.

A 7-7 vote means nothing. A 15-7 vote may call for eventual consideration. A 27-7 vote is just about done. You think the vote of 14 people should decide the fate of the game that several hundred play?

This idea doesn't change the scouting requirements at all, it just minimizes stupid and pointless macromap navigation, which will be expecially relevent when the new GUI allows you to assign orders via minimap.

Personally I consider manually marking targets on a scouting run fun, there is a challenge to it, and you get to choose priority. I don't consider unnessicary macromap navigation fun, I consider it just adding micromanagement for the point of adding micromanagement.

How about every time a player wants to make a move order they have to click all 4 corners of the screen once! that would add tonnes of micromovements to the game, clearly improving the fun factor tenfold!

I expect the minimap to accurately display what is happening on the macromap, that is the POINT of the minimap. Otherwize why not just remove the minimap and make the player navigate XY coordinates by locational memory? It takes more skill to master and therefore it must be good right?!?

Sarcasm asside, the skill aspect of the game should have to focuses, fun and clarity. If the skillsets it's touching makes the feature more fun it should focus on the fun factor. If the inclusion of a feature decreases confusion by a reasonable ammout it should be included, even if it removes some skill aspects. Skill should come in by getting your units to properly destroy your enemy, the process shouldn't be utterly frustrating to learn. Skill should not come in overcoming an overwhelming sense of confusion. The game must be playable to the unskilled, they just won't do as well because they aren't accustommed to how to make the units do exactly what they want/need them to, and how to make as many valuble units as possible in the shortest ammount of possible time.

[Storm]

It's just that every time I turn down an idea because it kills a bit of the gameplay, I always get at least one retard to scream "OH GNOES U WNAT CONTROL UNETS ONE BY ONE ALSO, HAHA ROFL UR SUCH A NOOB!!!12".

Skill should come in by getting your units to properly destroy your enemy, the process shouldn't be utterly frustrating to learn. Skill should not come in overcoming an overwhelming sense of confusion.

Skill in TA is to combine Expansion, Intelligence and War. Removing one of those pillars, significantly reduces the size of the game. Scouting and Economy handling is what differs pros from news. The game is easy to get in to, no matter how you're trying to get the "confustion" argument to work because rookies that just started the game, hardly even know anything about scouting. That part takes time to master properly.

[sp2danny72]

That was actually LOL-funny...

[edit] before the edit [/edit]

[aGorm]

Why hating arguing with me? It's not like I'm gonna shut you off FU or something stupid. In fact, I enjoy arguing with you as a contrast to some people here.

Well, I doubted you would. And thanks, I suppose thats kinda a complament in a way...

Now, I realy dont have the time, nor teh desire to read all of this (I've skim read)

It looks like everyones still witeling on about teh same things so I'll just adrees a few points Storm made.

Quote:
What you are basicly suggesting Storm (IMO and nothing but that) is that if you want to remember were a building is keep a pen handy and jot down teh cordinates... or use the draw on map feature. WHY? Why should I?

That's what differs pros from news - to be able to be everywhere at once. If you have absolutely no idea where you send your scouts, you don't deserve to know the placements of critical structures.

Im just not quite sure how that removed the skill. I mean, If I say, you scote go to teh north corner, assuming it gets there, I'd like to know what It was it saw, even If when It got there I was actully busy defending against someone else raid. After all, I gave the order, and if it worked, why should I not be rewarded with building positions? I can kinda see were your coming from, but I personly just think that this isn't removing from the game. And remember XTA does have a difference ballance... I think it works wiith the ghosts.

(Dont take that as a I like XTA balance... I think some things have lost there touch)

aGorm

[AF]

It's obviously a controversial issue this ghosting, I've gotten coloured console messages working and I'm about to add it to the settings thing, maybe I shall do the same with this ghosting........ pfft, there's no pleasing some people

[mongus]

WOW so much flames abot a little suggestion.

You really lack RESPECT for other people tougths and suggestions.

Let the guy think, and if you dont like what he comes up with, do not ecourage him, only that. Dont flame all over the place. its looks bad. and must feel worst.

all ican say is the guy suggested something and you cant do anything but tell him nono stop, give up, this is stupd... and more of those meaningless arguments.

And sp2danny, stop feeding the trolls, just plain dont aswer what has not the brains to deserve it.

Btw, the minimap bleedings look good, it causes me the same reject "ghosts" did when they first appear.
Mobile units could be excluded from the bleeding maybe, or maybe take another color..... rather be shorter lasting..

e: ah, and what i think is usefull for, is for releaving you from having to recall "... where was that small outpost again?.., here or more to the rigth..". Its good tactical information. (like dumb, (if you can) not to "notate" where were those buildings, acctually you only do this mentally.).

[Storm]

Err, three posts while I edited mine? Read my previous post if you're gonna reply to me.

WOW so much flames abot a little suggestion.

You really lack RESPECT for other people tougths and suggestions.

Let the guy think, and if you dont like what he comes up with, do not ecourage him, only that. Dont flame all over the place. its looks bad. and must feel worst.

1. I never insult a person, only his or hers ideas//arguments//ideologies. This idea, like the three thousand similar ideas before it is bad.

2. I don't like playing "No EMG, No Bertha, No nuke, No planes, No unit on hill" -games where the game creators can not handle certain things and simply block them. If you read any of my previous debates (the ones over eight-nine pages), you would know what I mean.

3. I've had the time where I tried to reason and bring long, advanced arguments to support my cause, but you know what? They were ignored, every single one of them. Blatantly and throughoutly. I bet you'd fall into the "Oh god, not again..." category I'm in right now if you had a few hundred pointless struggles.

And sp2danny, stop feeding the trolls, just plain dont aswer what has not the brains to deserve it.

So I'm the troll now? Fairly, and completely unsurprising comment. I'm like... the only oldschool left on these boards because the others left, so I become the lone badguy instead of being one of the many that wanted to save the game.

Mobile units could be excluded from the bleeding maybe, or maybe take another color..... rather be shorter lasting..

You want enemy mobile units to show up as well? Do you even know why the .units command was disabled?

[Gabba]

I have a suggestion; when you see a buildning,
either via LOS or radar, the buildings owners
color should 'bleed' onto the minimap, not as
sharply colored as the radardots, but kinda dull.
This whay you can see the bases you have scouted
with a glance at the minimap. This coloring should
stay at the minimap even if you no longer have
LOS / radar, just as grayed buildnings does. One a
sidenote, this would change one thing, you would
know if a radardot is a building or not, but that does
not really matter... Whaddayou think?

Since greyed buildings appear on the map itself, I don't see why they shouldn't appear on the minimap (if they appear in a color that sufficiently different from the active radar dots to avoid confusing the player). That'll save us some scrolling and sore eyes. Only buildings seen in LOS should do that, though: if every radar dot that ever appears on the minimap bleeds on it, it'll make a mess. And we don't want radar telling us what is a building or not: that for once would go very much against how radar works in TA.

[Zoombie]

You'r right, picture DO speak better then a thousand words!

Hmmmm....

Nah, i dont think that this add is nessisary. It would kindof remove the neccessity for artillery to have spotters, as you could fly a plane over someone's base and shell it accuratly from many many miles away.

NOW i understand Storm's adversion to gosted buildings! If you know where an enemy building is without haveing to radar or look at it constantly, then scouting suddenly becomes much...much less integral to gameplay.

Darn...now i wish i could change my vote.

[FireCrack]

^well, you can do that "artilery dont need spotters" thing now, just by looking for the ghosted buildings on the macro-map and then attacking their general location, unless i misunderstand you...

[Storm]

Zoombie... I love you.

[sp2danny72]

And sp2danny, stop feeding the trolls, just plain
dont aswer what has not the brains to deserve it.

Well, if it is Storm you are calling a troll, I must disagree. His well thought
out and articulated arguments has made me change my mind from "it
should be in" to "it should be an option". However, I think it should be
a default option, because it hints the player towards good play.

Skill in TA is to combine Expansion, Intelligence and War.

No. Not in TA. In all RTS's. I would put it, that your three top priorities
in any good RTS are:

1: intel, intel, intel
2: expand
3: keep the pressure up

Now, if buildings are shown somehow on the minmap, then scouting
becomes more useful, and thus gets incoorporated quicker in players
repetoar. This means that if the game hints players towards good play,
noobs become decent players quicker, and decent players become good
players quicker.

This in turn means that there are more available players that match you,
and gamers enjoy the game more, and that the community grows. Hinting
the player towards good play is ESSENTIAL for a game to get played by
more than just a handfull.

It ALSO means that the gap between the decent player and the expert
gets smaller, but, Storm, its still big enough to secure a win. Your
adversion towards this stems from beeing a elitist, right?