The economics of Spring mod users - Page 7

The economics of Spring mod users

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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Regret
Posts: 2086
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 19:04

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by Regret »

Argh wrote:Sure, there are countless trackers, and they're constantly getting C&D or sued or the owners are getting put in jail. Like those supposedly-invulnerable guys at Pirate's Bay.
TBP owners are not in jail, and the judges were biased and both parties called for an appeal, try reading reports a bit.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by AF »

Its not the looming ominous shadow of atari legal action that hurts us.

Its the lets steer clear of the whole mess because we don't want to deal with it shadow that other people who could help us are being scared off by.

We can calm ourselves by saying Atari si unlikely to ever move on this, because we're already here, we're in neck high. These other people though arent, and they're not going to accept our cushy explanations of why its okay. As far as they#re concerned, we're not legit, and ti doesnt matter hwo safe we are from atari, there's something illegal going on, and a lack of action by atari doesn't change that.

We're fools if we think we can carry on as we are and not suffer from it.
Tobi
Spring Developer
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Joined: 01 Jun 2005, 11:36

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by Tobi »

And the suggested solution is ... ?
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TheFatController
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006, 18:46

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by TheFatController »

DESTROY BA!!


Edit: or or have all the loonies from this forum send their crazy 3 page rants and theorys to cavedog so they never take us seriously or take the time to bother us.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by AF »

My suggestion is that BA take steps to make itself more succesful, as counter intuitive as that is. BAs current situation is not because of what its doing its because its actively maintained and already has a sizeable portion of loyal players.

BA advertising out in the world, distributing tis own installer, with a token website explaining what BA is and where to download it wont harm the non TA based games, but itll make BA bigger.

Fat controller, while I appreciate you yoursef dont want to do this, you ejoy doing what you do best, but you don't have to. Post a thread requesting other people to help do this for you. The community under you playing BA has more than enough time and resources to do all this while you carry on as you did before.
[Krogoth86]
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by [Krogoth86] »

AF wrote:We can calm ourselves by saying Atari si unlikely to ever move on this, because we're already here, we're in neck high.
Who is this "we" you're talking about?
That attitude might fight to one half of the gamers or maybe more who just don't care. The rest owns TA and thus has the right to play this...

For the devs though nothing of that really applies and so I don't know why you're trying to play the schoolmaster now. It's not like people could pull a switch and replace all the OTA content with something new and fresh thus getting rid of the IP but just hesisate by saying "Nah - I'm fine with the way it is right now." as you're imputing. It's just because a lack of manpower, time or skill why this is going on so slowly but there sure are people trying to get things going on and I know of no modder who wouldn't replace his stuff once there is a complete set ready to go...

That's just the way it is and so it's no use doing the "OMG it's about the IP"-dance yet again. Replacing simply won't go any faster and there's nothing anyone can do about that except for helping. I also find it amazing that a topic about getting people to play Spring (i.e. discussing the entire managed to deviate into this whole IP things. Not that it's important but we're now discussing this for the 100th time and there's not going to be anything new about this so why derailing this topic to repeat the entire discussion?
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by AF »

Owning TA doesn't make seeding a TA based game on spring downloader any more legal.

Its like saying its okay for me to buy a copy of Adobe CS4 for £500+, then burn 1000 copies and hand them out for free, its the peoples fault for accepting them!
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TheFatController
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by TheFatController »

Fat controller, while I appreciate you yoursef dont want to do this, you ejoy doing what you do best, but you don't have to. Post a thread requesting other people to help do this for you. The community under you playing BA has more than enough time and resources to do all this while you carry on as you did before.
I'm not interested in a community website for BA, I'd be happy to work with someone who was. I am interested in a packaged installer for the purposes of attracting new players and have made steps towards this for the near future.
AF wrote:Its like saying its okay for me to buy a copy of Adobe CS4 for £500+, then burn 1000 copies and hand them out for free, its the peoples fault for accepting them!
More like buy a copy of Photoshop 0.63 and save all the button icons then use them in a different photo editor and distribute 1000 copies of that.
[Krogoth86]
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by [Krogoth86] »

AF wrote:Owning TA doesn't make seeding a TA based game on spring downloader any more legal.
I never said it would be...
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smoth
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by smoth »

fat controller, you really think people have tried to take down ba by contacting atari? why would they do that?
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TheFatController
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by TheFatController »

smoth wrote:fat controller, you really think people have tried to take down ba by contacting atari? why would they do that?
Honestly if you look at some people's post history on this topic I wouldn't be surprised.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by CarRepairer »

el_matarife wrote:Personally, I wish we could just buy a non-commercial redistribution license for the content from Atari for some nominal fee of like $10,000 which we could easily raise.
L.O.L.
TheFatController wrote:I don't already doubt that several other people have already desperately tried to report BA but the fact that you also feel the need to shout about it is not appreciated.
R.O.F.L.

Awesome, this is super fun thread.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by AF »

If you can summon up someone to do the website for you, I am happy to host it and maybe even design that logo you so wanted?
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TheFatController
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by TheFatController »

Well on a separate note BA does still need a logo for the loadscreens and I'm accepting submissions.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
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Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by SeanHeron »

It's already been mentioned, but I'd like to clarify the hosting issue (I would have assumed this to be clear, but obviously it's not):
Our most famous/played current RTS, WC3 (and Starcraft before it), does not require port forwarding if you "host", because Battlenet is actually giving you a "dedicated" server to run your game on - this is for standard games (beyond and related to that, it also auto allocates you to the type of game you select - but this is obviously only possible due to large player base).
If you play a user-modified game (eg DoTA), then you do need port forwarding - (DoTA I guess has less of a problem with this as it's 10 people to a proper game anyway).

What I then would view as our solution to this problem, would be an expansion of the "host on Autoserver" function (which is pretty neat, by the way):
  • Given there are sufficient compatible Autoservers, I would set Lobbies on this function as default
  • have the settings choosable in a menu like you do when you self host - but have these settings locked when you open the "host" / open the game lobby
  • and remove any "ready" functionality (so Host can start at will) or autostart when game is full.
Well, to put it shortly, I'd do it pretty much like WC3 has it.

Sean
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Gota
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Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by Gota »

TheFatController wrote:
smoth wrote:fat controller, you really think people have tried to take down ba by contacting atari? why would they do that?
Honestly if you look at some people's post history on this topic I wouldn't be surprised.
Truth.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by CarRepairer »

I confress, it was me.
dear atari

please sue ba. they stoled your stuff so plz put them all in jail for lulz.

if possible plz also sue dsd cauz it sux to and everyone plays it and regret combomd me becoz he is a jerk.

thank u.

signed,

leonard ralph percy chalmers

p.s. thank u for sonic the hegehog its my faverite gaem i like sonic 3.
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smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by smoth »

CarRepairer wrote:I confress, it was me.
dear atari

please sue ba. they stoled your stuff so plz put them all in jail for lulz.

if possible plz also sue dsd cauz it sux to and everyone plays it and regret combomd me becoz he is a jerk.

thank u.

signed,

leonard ralph percy chalmers

p.s. thank u for sonic the hegehog its my faverite gaem i like sonic 3.
you son of a b... .wait, are you mechasonic!?!?
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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by Argh »

LOL.

Just for the record... I have never talked to them. So far as I know, the only person who ever has is Tobi.

When I do anything like that, you would know pretty fast. I write pretty effective letters ;)

And the objective, as I see it, is not to "report" anybody. It's to cut a deal and end this nonsense with a legal solution.

At any rate, I don't see any consensus here about whether we should proceed or not, so I'm not doing anything.

I'll talk to that guy about it, put it theoretically, see what he thinks. He won't "turn Spring in" or anything like that. But I need some gut-level idea from a veteran of the Industry of how a publisher is going to react, if they're given a proposal to fix things, given the situation.
Last edited by Argh on 03 Jun 2009, 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Re: The economics of Spring mod users

Post by zwzsg »

[Krogoth86] wrote:Another newbie trap that should be get rid of is the naming of the Spring.exe. I always have the feeling that every 2nd newbie tries to launch Spring this way instead of using the lobby which is quite understandable...
Give me package.loadlib and I'll redirect them with my integrated launcher
Regret wrote:The current official Spring server does not in any way distribute (or helps to distribute) illegal content. No illegal data is relayed by the server either.
The current installer put a link to your start menu, that, as soon as you click it, downloads otacontent.sdz, tacontent_v2.sdz, tatextures_v062.sdz.
Argh wrote:
So...
Can i make money out of Supreme Annihilation?
No, you can't... because the License of the engine does not allow you to.
Argh wtfness at its greatest.
Argh wrote:since I'm now a (runt) member of Stardock's "family" of developers, I could maybe talk to Chris Taylor about this stuff, see what he thinks.
How much warm and fuzzy in your insides does it make you to talk down upon us now that you feel the equal of Chris T. since you've gone commercial?

Tobi wrote:Maybe we should just stop releasing installers except from a password protected area to which only game developers have the password.
That reminds me the day I asked Trepan for Lua doc and his response was to delete the only one. Again, what's the wrong the two solutions of:
- Have an installer like previously, with tick boxes to select mode to download?
- Have Tobi say we can now put mod's installer in wiki download's page?
try to take down ba by contacting atari
Stop the bullshit, if they were going to jail us, they would have show sign of life already. The risk of getting C&D is non-existant (and even if we were, that wouldn't be the death of Spring), but like AF said, the issue is more the taint that the TA thievery leaves all over the Spring project and that prevent it to get more exposure in the free movement.
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