OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

[el_matarife]

In this partnership, we would:

1. Give BA a say in our remodeling process.
2. Basically rename our lua repository from "CA svn" to "TA git".
3. Pledge to not criticize BA.
4. Offer planetwars as an act of good faith (yes it was really asked).

In return, BA offers collaboration.

I asked you to open source PlanetWars since I figure it would be a big draw for Spring in general. FatController has expressed zero interest in it because it requires a dedicated server he can't or won't pay for. I figured that if you open sourced it that there was good chance there would be improvements made, even if you are using some oddball technology like F# among others.

Anyway, the "No criticism" pledge would go both ways obviously.

As far as the model process, I was suggesting a joint project to remake TA inspired units which you guys clearly aren't interested in. I didn't realize you guys wanted to move away from the OTA designs. I believe several of the mods using OTA based units right now would be interested in 21st century versions of the OTA designs, and they're welcome to join.

The git repo was a suggestion to get all the mods using any shared widgets to develop them in public, maybe on the actual Spring git repository like the AI used to be developed. I figured that would enable better collaboration between the forked widgets like Chicken.

You CA guys have made it very clear to me that you don't believe that you benefit from open source at all and that every other mod is basically leeching from you. (I'm being a little more blunt here than you all were, but that was definitely the impression I got. I also got the impression that you all feel that no other mod has produced anything of value that CA has benefited from.)

[TheFatController]

I'm happy with the no public bashing pledge, and I would ask you to review the automatic #main ads ie 'better graphics, better gameplay' etc. that seem to start fights daily.

As for collaboration i'm not interested personally in a say in CA's remodeling process or having them rename or share their svn (most gadgets are slightly tweaked for each mod anyway so the benefits to either project would be minimal).

Planetwars I can see benefiting BA in that it would encourage players to choose a wider variety of maps and offer a new type of competitive gameplay which is a gain, but as el_matarife said i'm not interested in obtaining the source code only.

[quantum]

You CA guys have made it very clear to me that you don't believe that you benefit from open source

That's true. Believe it or not, CA is open source because of altruism. CA was open from day one, when the custom was that you have to ask before you can use content, and long before we decided to go beyond OTA.

[Otherside]

NOTE: its only BA fanboi's who take deep offense to CA advertising + most of the iffy adlines were removed by me and regret.


TFC still seems to have hostility problems towards CA.

Ive watched the main arguements before (i rarely take part in them anymore) and TFC is hardly a saint.

[Forboding Angel]

CA is generally the one's starting the fights tho. Generally from ad's that intentionally bash BA.

Perhaps you could put ad's up that tell features as opposed to comparisons.

I don't particularly enjoy playing BA, but CA comparing itself to how much better than BA it is just annoys me, and makes me want to play neither.

CA has this rabid fanbase (egged on by the devs of CA) that attacks anything that isn't CA then tries to hide beneath a cloak of civility. I (and I would venture to guess that most other people as well) see through that as easily as water, and it just rises the feeling of disgust within me.

If you're going to advertise, stop trying to 1 up the other guy and advertise based upon your merits.

CA's advertising is demeaning and irritating to look at.

[smoth]

CA's advertising is demeaning and irritating to look at.

demeaning? how so?

I do not agree with the assertion it makes about being the best looking spring mod(in reference to the projects) as I take it as opinion. Believe me I am still on the fence if I think starwars/s44 looks better than gundam and among those two who looks better.... although I want to say it goes like s44>sw>gundam...

anyway point is I think people are being too fucking sensitive. I don't care that BA players cite it as better than gundam. I don't care that CA people advert it as superior either.

All this damn bickering, who cares you guys are fighting over a bone with no marrow in it! It is some little shit niche community and a small group of players. You don't get any money for it and it is just a fucking game. there are bigger issues in the world.

[quantum]

CA is generally the one's starting the fights tho. Generally from ad's that intentionally bash BA.

Perhaps you could put ad's up that tell features as opposed to comparisons.

If you're going to advertise, stop trying to 1 up the other guy and advertise based upon your merits.

CA's advertising is demeaning and irritating to look at.

Here are our ads and their history http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/AdLines
I don't really see what's so terrible about these ads.

CA has this rabid fanbase (egged on by the devs of CA) that attacks anything that isn't CA then tries to hide beneath a cloak of civility. I (and I would venture to guess that most other people as well) see through that as easily as water, and it just rises the feeling of disgust within me.

That is just wrong. We try to stop CA fanbois in channels we control. Please back up your claim.

We certainly don't attack anything that is not CA. We often provide assistance to other mods. Your really have a short memory. For example, I helped you intergrate CA's help widget and, a month ago, honestly spent a couple of days just making the mission editor compatible with your mod (and I haven't heard back from you about fixing the mod-side Lua, yet).


Look, we don't like having to use ads. They take effort and the make irritate part of the player base. But they are a necessary evil. We analyzed 8 months of ad line statistics and it's very clear that without ads, we slowly lose many players. Probably people just sort by players and click on the first game, which is almost certainly a BA game.

[Forboding Angel]

You misunderstand me quantum. You have always seen fit to help games that aren't in direct competition with CA (Read: Evo, gundam, s44, IW, PURE, etc). The other members of your dev team however, are a different story entirely http://replays.adune.nl/?850

I'm talking about the stuff in #main, and the stuff that isn't your "Approved" adlines (Why would you think I was talking about those anyway?).

Last time I checked, #main is not controlled by the CA dev team (I know that you are a moderator, but you are a spring moderator).

Also, in case it isn't obvious, I would exempt you pretty much entirely from anything I said. Reason being, you and you alone have always been extremely kind and helpful.

[Otherside]

Thats why they put work into making BA planetwars...

Learn your facts plz

[el_matarife]

#main is a cesspool of idiocy anyway and I recommend to everyone I know that they remove it from their automatic channel joins. It is only (barely) useful to advertise for open games, but that generally doesn't work either.

[Forboding Angel]

Thats why they put work into making BA planetwars...

Learn your facts plz

Learn YOUR facts otherside. Apparently you missed to part where planetwars was deliberately designed to break if used with BA. That happened before people started going after CA for it, then suddenly, Planetwars for BA emerged. THis is what I mean by running and hiding under a cloak of civility.

Stab in the back as hard as you can, and if it backfires, Immediately switch it up so you can appear to be a white knight. I'm well aware that quantum isn't like that, lord knows he has helped me on multiple occasions and as far as I have seen he has always been rather curteous to the BA guys as well, but the rest of you... ./sigh

I'm sure TFC remembers that, I know I do. I didn't really care about it, but I did roll my eyes.

Regardless, go back to your fight/trolling, I said my 2 cents.

[Otherside]

Oh Lord

the whole thing about planet wars breaking when running BA was a joke.

Seems you like many other people here fail at a sense of humor :p

and the rest of the dev's are all pretty civil and helpful towards BA.

Forb i suggest you stay out of this because your clearly have no clue of the situation.

[quantum]

The other members of your dev team however, are a different story entirely http://replays.adune.nl/?850

Could you point me to Evo RTS 1.01 so I can watch the replay?

I'm talking about the stuff in #main, and the stuff that isn't your "Approved" adlines (Why would you think I was talking about those anyway?).

Those plus det's lines ( http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/PlayerTestimonials ) are nearly all the ad lines. I bet you can't find a single day in which the offensive lines were significant, let alone a big campaign organized by CA devs behind the scenes.

Sure, there is BA bashing in #main, but probably not any more than CA bashing, and anyway we can't really do much about it. You can't expect that all your players are reasonable.

We can and do moderate #ca, instead.

Learn YOUR facts otherside. Apparently you missed to part where planetwars was deliberately designed to break if used with BA. That happened before people started going after CA for it, then suddenly, Planetwars for BA emerged. THis is what I mean by running and hiding under a cloak of civility.

Stab in the back as hard as you can, and if it backfires, Immediately switch it up so you can appear to be a white knight. I'm well aware that quantum isn't like that, lord knows he has helped me on multiple occasions and as far as I have seen he has always been rather curteous to the BA guys as well, but the rest of you... ./sigh

Hahahah, deliberately broken? We never deliberatly broke planetwars, or any piece of code. Why should we deliberatly break something closed source, on our servers?

BTW I'm a planetwars dev and I was the one who posted the screenshot with BA planetwars. It does exist, and has existed for 4 months

Edit: and the mission editor has been working with BA for a few days now, before the recent friction. Check the CA svn and the mission editor post. Nothing deliberatly broken. Go look at the source if you think we broke previous versions.

[Licho]

This is really ridiculous...

Im getting sick out of this all. Many key CA devs put enormous ammount of time into work that benefits whole community and pushes stuff forward and what we get back is random hate, ridiculous demands and unfounded accusation..


How can you claim such BS FA??
We tried to make planetwars compatible with BA and in fact we suceeded. After some serious effort from almost all planetwars developers.

Then we asked for maintainer/balancer of BA planetwars and got no response. Thats the only reason why it isnt running atm.

Check your data before spewing BS around. Besides planetwars development is not hidden, you can review all tickets/changes. There are many BA related commits and some tickets reporting/fixing BA related planetwars bugs.

http://planet-wars.eu:8080/trac/ - go to timeline and check few months back.

[TheFatController]

Then we asked for maintainer/balancer of BA planetwars and got no response. Thats the only reason why it isnt running atm.

Where was this asked as I follow these forums and never saw it, I would infact volunteer if anyone had made me aware of the offer.

[Licho]

Myself i asked many times in #ca and #pw, once in complete annihilation news, once in recent planetwars for BA thread in general.

Others probably asked too.

[Forboding Angel]

I read the original thread licho. There was no joking in that thread. It only became a joke once PW for BA had been done after people bitched at you about it.

To quote someone who shall remain nameless, "That is licho vs everyone, not CA vs everyone." People like myself tend to read it as one and the same.

And Springdownloader's obtuse nature is out of the goodness of your heart and isn't a tool to prop up CA in people's faces as much as possible... Riiiight.

It's a useful tool, there's no doubt about that, but it is very much CA downloader still, and you've been oh so helpful with letting other games have module tabs...

quant: http://evolutionrts.info/evolutionpatch ... 0Versions/

The game itself isn't so important, what pisses me off is the fact that sak**** (apparently I'm not allowed to call people names, regardless of how appropriate it is) came into our autohost, and started spewing. That makes me pretty mad. I don't come into the CA autohosts and start bashing CA. It's pretty damn sad that a CA dev has the need to come in and start bashing. Notice that I never came after him about it publicly (other than mentioning it as a basis for fail).

[Licho]

It's a useful tool, there's no doubt about that, but it is very much CA downloader still, and you've been oh so helpful with letting other games have module tabs...

P2P system protocol:
http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/DownloaderProtocol

Widget system protocol:
http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/WidgetProtocol

This is the guide how to add module:
http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/Downloade ... evelopment

Very bad soldier created his widget module to spring downloader using just this guide, without any questions.

And FYI, SpringDownloader ends on next spring release. Det and BD are adding CA-type updating system into engine and SpringLobby.

So it should be even easier to add support for whatever mod.

Oh and it will no longer have anything to do with me :) So find another person to blame!

[lurker]

Licho is not working against you by not spending his time helping you code something for yourself. I don't care if you tried before, you clearly didn't try hard enough if you didn't end up with an Evo module at the end.

Edit: Licho even took the time to make a page about what you need to do to add a module!? If I hear you say one more word suggesting Licho has done anything against non-ca modules I will not be happy. We talked about this before. Stop it.

[Peet]

Why are you turning a generalized conversation into direct, explicit personal attacks, Forb?