rebalanced 0.9

[Pnakotus]

Nukes work well when you have more than one silo and several reloads before you strike: many people will respond to the first missile with a single antinuke, and then you can still salvo your remaining missiles in, damaging their buildings and giving their units a tan... because individual nukes are pathetic.

To be honest, however, anyone with a base so centralised it can be quickly destroyed/crippled by nukes hasn't thought about it enough.

[Zoombie]

Well i think the entire stance with nukes needs to be changed to make them more like a "Ill use it if you use it" type thing.

See just do theses things:

Make a Nuke explosion a damned murshroom cloud, and have it maby ten time's the diameter

Have it kill anything and everything that isent underground...or a com.

Have it paralyze units for a while due to E.M.P

And if a single nuke gose off then EVERYONE'S nukes atoumaticaly fire at a single enemy commander. This represents the whole M.A.D situation, and ensures that everyone will build nukes.

So while we fight with conventinal wepaons and sutch, our nuke arsenals canblow up the entire map.

[FizWizz]

And if a single nuke gose off then EVERYONE'S nukes atoumaticaly fire at a single enemy commander. This represents the whole M.A.D situation, and ensures that everyone will build nukes.

So while we fight with conventinal wepaons and sutch, our nuke arsenals canblow up the entire map.

ehh, please don't. The point of having nukes is to kill the enemy. The intent here is Total Annihilation (pun intended). No-holds-barred nuclear free-for-alls are what people want, and I mean 'if you can get a nuke up first and blow your opponent to kingdom come then by damn, do it,' not 'you launch a nuke and its gameover for everyone.

Make a Nuke explosion a damned murshroom cloud, and have it maby ten time's the diameter

okay, a mushroom cloud would rock, but ten times the diameter is extreme, I'd say x1.5 maximum.

Have it kill anything and everything that isn't underground...or a com.

A bit extreme, anything that's heavily armored ought to survive (which reminds me of a neat idea, what about making all fusions nuke-able, but then making heavily-armored or bunkered fusions available?)

Have it paralyze units for a while due to E.M.P

Cool, but does Spring support simultaneous paralysis AND conventional damage on weapons?

[Pnakotus]

Nukes work well as tactical weapons as they are. As an attack goes in, setting some nukes on the defence line (or strongpoints) usually obliterates the lower-end defences and makes it much easier to get in. They simply aren't 'blow everything to shit' weapons - they're extremely accurate artillery, and that's how they should be used.

But yes, the BMD stuff is way, way, way cheap now. Ick.

[Zoombie]

Maby i did over react to nukes underpowerndess. see in OTA i remember the first time i booted up the game. See i had a choice between Starcraft and OTA. Im so glad i bought the latter as when i was spoiled by the sheer power of the nukes, SC was ruined as the first time a nuke in SC and was crushed. It was that expensive... and did that little?

Ah... those days. Back when TA looked like the best and most innovate RTS ever.

Well i have changed my mind. Mushroom clouds and a 1.5 sized bigger nuke.

A M.A.D mod would be cool for epic maps though....

[SinbadEV]

just use more nukes

[HellToupee]

Nukes can hit anywhere in the map tho, vs expanding players only portions of their base wind up protected by nukes, anti nukes also offer no value other than to protect against nukes, if a player gets a nuke before players have an anti nuke its game over this is quite a boring game to play also forcing u to withdraw into anti nuker coverage and also nukes can slaughter attacking forces, not the heavy units but if using kbots etc maverics they just get annihilated unless u dance them around. Anti nukes arnt terribly strong ither takes just a wing of bombers to take one out.

[SwiftSpear]

Nukes can hit anywhere in the map tho, vs expanding players only portions of their base wind up protected by nukes, anti nukes also offer no value other than to protect against nukes, if a player gets a nuke before players have an anti nuke its game over this is quite a boring game to play also forcing u to withdraw into anti nuker coverage and also nukes can slaughter attacking forces, not the heavy units but if using kbots etc maverics they just get annihilated unless u dance them around. Anti nukes arnt terribly strong ither takes just a wing of bombers to take one out.

An individual nuke costs ALOT more then a mex, even a moho mex. It's not worth wasting the nukes on every mex on the opponents side of the map, and most likely he has all his primary bases covered by antinuke. I know if I put up antinuke I make sure from then on that all my fusions and advanced unit const structures are well within range of it.

[Pnakotus]

It's worth remembering that few people build overlapping BMD. Four silos with one nuke each will penetrate a single BMD system with ease, and be more effective than a single silo with ten nukes.

Of course, this will hardly win the game for you. But that's why nukes are a part of combined arms: popping his BMD, likely some fusions, and maybe a nice hugeass gun may well give you the distraction you need to get some units inside his base.

[SwiftSpear]

It's worth remembering that few people build overlapping BMD. Four silos with one nuke each will penetrate a single BMD system with ease, and be more effective than a single silo with ten nukes.

Of course, this will hardly win the game for you. But that's why nukes are a part of combined arms: popping his BMD, likely some fusions, and maybe a nice hugeass gun may well give you the distraction you need to get some units inside his base.

As evidenced by that 220 nukes vs 11 antinuke vid it should take more then 4 silos to punch through a single antinuke field... Depending how close the silo is to the antinuke of course, but usually you build a silo in the back of your base for protection reasons.

[IMSabbel]

Also, most people forget how much resources a nuke (as in the missile) costs.

2300 energy (iirc) for 60 seconds... that would be nearly 4k metal if put into moho-MMs. Thats ok if it hits and does some damage, but seeing that you need to some volleys to push through, the total metal wasteage can easily reach krogoth levels...

[Pnakotus]

Again, an effective nuke volley can destroy targets capable of stopping conventional assaults, like Vulcans. In cases like that, the expenditure is worth it, simply for destroying such a high-value, powerful target and allowing the conventional attack to succeed.

I haven't seen the video referred to, but in OTA I've been on the recieving end of four inbound nukes penetrating a single BMD. All launch simultaneously from separate locations, one was shot down and the other three destroyed the BMD, most of the local AA, and a fusion. A ground force destroyed the fighter patrols and a bomber force killed the Vulcan and the rest of the base. The game wasn't over (who has just one base?), but the attack would not have succeeded otherwise, even with four nukes' worth more units.

[SwiftSpear]

Again, an effective nuke volley can destroy targets capable of stopping conventional assaults, like Vulcans. In cases like that, the expenditure is worth it, simply for destroying such a high-value, powerful target and allowing the conventional attack to succeed.

I haven't seen the video referred to, but in OTA I've been on the recieving end of four inbound nukes penetrating a single BMD. All launch simultaneously from separate locations, one was shot down and the other three destroyed the BMD, most of the local AA, and a fusion. A ground force destroyed the fighter patrols and a bomber force killed the Vulcan and the rest of the base. The game wasn't over (who has just one base?), but the attack would not have succeeded otherwise, even with four nukes' worth more units.

http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2597

XTA != OTA

Antinuke can easily deal with multiple inbound targets in XTA spring.

[Pnakotus]

Ugh. More capable and much cheaper. Just ugh.