Cute WW2 tanky - Now with extra McFancy open mod positions!

[clericvash]

And the lame bitchyness begins again....

Could we see some more of your models?

[smoth]

sorry argh, I was off owning temples in Guatemala was too busy being awesome to reply. So this is a generic post with not even witty retort... oh lawd cock fight.

[AF]

Do your temples have gift shops? If so can you send me a postcard?

[smoth]

Lol, that place was so third world, I did pick up some hand woven blankets but nah man, I am back from the trip. going to work today and looking forward my company getting bought. I hope we do, it'll be awesome if we do, I'll get double my vacation.

[SPRKH]

Seriously though, is it DOABLE?

If so, I'll retreat back to my lair to work on a full design document.

[smoth]

I would say it isn't likely to run on a hand held without some serious optimizations to spring.

[Snipawolf]

Yeah, bunch of optimization and changes to the engine would be necessary. You can make a design doc and the models/textures while you wait. Maybe you'll nab some programmer who'll help you. Maybe you can program it yourself. At this point in time, your project is up in the air.

[SPRKH]

I would say it isn't likely to run on a hand held without some serious optimizations to spring.

Well yeah but that wasn't really the aim.

/e The game should use software rendering, could I get confirmation on whether or not that would work?

[IllvilJa]

Dramatically limit the number of involved units and the graphical complexity of each and you've probably got far. Then the issue is how to handle the maps, as I don't know to what extent the maps can be made "low-fidelity" in geometry and texture. If the latter can be done, I think a lot is won. If you want to include AI players, then I have to admit that I really don't know how to "trim down" the system requirements of that.

If you don't have AIs though, maybe you can get away without any modifications to the Spring engine. But I think your cute WW2 tanky is too complex graphics wize. A very basic (ugly but still) tank can be made with ca 50 polys. If you are really at lowering polys ad absurdum you can let a tetrahedron (not a regular one, but more slanted to get the right 'tank attitude') be the tank body and let an elongated tetrahedron "swiveling around" the tank body's top be the barrel. The latter would be a tank for just 8 tris! But yes, it would be ugly and hard to differentiate from other unit types at a distance (especially if all units are made up by few tetrahedrons each).

(I know, I should design and post some images of such a "tetra-tank")

It is always interesting to try to answer the question "how far can too far go" regarding reducing complexity.

[SPRKH]

Well the tank model was pretty much what I had in mind as far as specifications go, perhaps a bit more low-res as I am considering using a "fixed" camera (zoom and rotation disabled) and maybe a fixed resolution at 800x600. Map objects (buildings etc.) could use tiling textures to keep texture sizes down, and do not need to have complex geometry.

AI would have to be implemented though.

Why are the minimum specs for the engine so high, compared to other, albeit commercial engines such as the one used for Emperor: Battle for Dune.

Minimum Requirements

* Win 95/98/2000/ME
PII400MHz
64MB RAM
16MB 3D accelerator
4xCD-ROM
600MB free disk space

[Argh]

Simple answer is that several things in Spring are very different than in Dune, and are very resistant to scaling. That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that if you use very small maps, very slow speeds (i.e., everything's scaled down for the teeny maps, so that with a fixed camera, it looks fast), and generally get everything low-low-low, you can probably do OK.

Now... on a portable, using software rendering only? No way. Too many things in Spring are GPU driven (even with "advanced shaders" off), and would need major rewrites before you'd be able to do them on a portable platform.

In short... while I think you can make a fairly small game that runs well on crappy computers and looks better than something from the late 90's, I don't think you can make this engine run on a portable.

[SPRKH]

Simple answer is that several things in Spring are very different than in Dune, and are very resistant to scaling. That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that if you use very small maps, very slow speeds (i.e., everything's scaled down for the teeny maps, so that with a fixed camera, it looks fast), and generally get everything low-low-low, you can probably do OK.

Now... on a portable, using software rendering only? No way. Too many things in Spring are GPU driven (even with "advanced shaders" off), and would need major rewrites before you'd be able to do them on a portable platform.

In short... while I think you can make a fairly small game that runs well on crappy computers and looks better than something from the late 90's, I don't think you can make this engine run on a portable.

Thanks for the clear reply, though I think most of you misunderstand the "portable" aspect. It simply means that you could run it straight from a thumbdrive (usb memory stick, to clarify it some more) without having to run an installer and the like.
But yeah, if a video card is absolutely required, then I'm afraid I cannot pull through with this. Maaaaa.

[IllvilJa]

But seriously, does the market release anything with a display screen these days that is missing a GPU with at least some sort of graphics?

Probably I'm naive, but I thought that the netbooks of today at least had a rudimentary 3D acceleration built in via some low spec, cheap graphics card. But there are certainly others out there who are better suited to answer that one.

[Neddie]

You can work with integrated here, you'll just need to plan it well. I've been testing on integrated, though I can't get icons to work correctly. Also, it is a game, not a mod, unless you're using content derived from another package.

[Argh]

Thanks for the clear reply, though I think most of you misunderstand the "portable" aspect.

Yeah, sorry, I thought you meant various portable platforms.

At any rate, the hardware has to be new enough to support OpenGL 1.3, IIRC, to really meet the minimum system requirements. 2.0 support is only needed for some of the high-end stuff, like GLSL shader waves, etc.

That leaves a lot of integrated graphics boards on the playlist, but not rock-bottom crap that is (barely) supposed to run ok with Office.

Also, I should note that there is a pretty absolute wall that you'll hit, going small. Once you get to the point where every Unit is a Footprint in pathing size, and has a sphere less than 8 radius, you'll start to see various problems with display, shots not registering very well, etc., which will be hard (not necessarily impossible) to get around. Spring's not really designed for ultra-small scale- it's scale is actually pretty specific and it's hard to make it do stuff that's larger or smaller.

All of that said... I think it's possible to do what you want, other than the software rendering bits, which would be counterproductive anyhow (it'd just slow down the very same machines that are at the bare-minimum levels people would need to run the game at all).

[SPRKH]

I am stoned and I just realized that OpenGl would work on on-board graphics.

Word.

[Argh]

Some OpenGL. It's not all the same thing duuuuuuude.

[SPRKH]

Well shucks.

[Neddie]

Follow your dream!

[Snipawolf]

If nothing, polish your skillz making models for the game.