Need a *A Spring video showing great micro/macro

[Lolsquad_Steven]

Bring back the ba 1v1 scene imo

[BaNa]

I saw a few replays that made me realize that on SOME maps, in properly matched 1v1, even BA has a wonderful diversity at start.

The map i had in mind was Sands of war, and my, nice starts galore.

[Sleksa]

different units with different roles. Rockos vs rockos might result injust falling back. Substitute marines for peewees, lurkers for reapers, science vessels for spies and tanks for snipers. Now you self d your spy, swarm with the peewees and keept your snipers out of trouble.

you are silly, pro ba games dont get to t2 often

still, theres a reason that a handful of people can rape anyone on earth at 1v1 BA, and thats because its incredibly skill / APM based.

Actually quite a few of the games between day and randy ended up in t2/endgame that i remember.

even in maps like brazillian (8x8) you'd sometimes see andy getting brawlers to snipe a commander, or getting mavs/whatnot

Comet catcher was usually even more hectic, with t2 air, nukes, bulldogs seen on the field

The reasoning behind was that at some point there would be just too many flashes out in the field(the biggest match i saw had ~1000 flash on the map, forming a ww1-like no mans land area between the flash lines ranging through one side of the map to the other) And they would be replaced as fast as they'd die , which led to the need of bigger tanks with bigger guns

But thats the very top level gameplay, and i doubt anyone else but andy and day could make such games.

However "semi pro" matches usually DO end up in t1 quite often, with the other side being overwhelmed with flashes/thuds simply because they have the infrastructure to build them en masse(factories&nanos).

compared to building t2 factories and then starting to pump out units, you'd need a lot of excess resources (4k+ metal and hundreds of excess energy) to build a factory and 10+ nanos around the upcoming t2 factory to build any useful amount of t2 units, and to move them to the field would take even more time. So the effective usefulness of the t2 quickly becomes overshadowed by getting more con vehicles assisting more veh factories, so you get more damage& hp on the field.

Compared to a t2 factory and 8 nanos building panthers every 15 seconds, you could have about 5 factories being assisted by 1-4 convehs each, building flashes every 8 or so seconds from all of the labs with the cost of the t2 building infrastructure, and i'd rather have those 50 flashes instead of 4-5 panthers in the field.


What was my point again?

Oh yes!

Its not about the usefulness of the units, but rather about the economical metagame of BA why you often see the game ending in the flash stage, and the APM is usually distributed into early game dancing of single jeffies and flash, with ~80% off the apm after the early stages going into economy/macro

[Sleksa]

[rant mode off]

[BlueTemplar]

The t2 units can be a bit underwhelming (in BA). For instance, yesterday I saw 2 bulldogs lose to ~10 stumpies. I don't think this should happen : a bulldog costs 4+ stumpies in metal and 8+ in energy, AND you need a t2 fac to build it.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

i saw 2 peewees kill a sniper once.

[BlueTemplar]

It was a frontline fight, and both sides were pretty much stationary, so it's not about the stumpy side having better micro.

[JohannesH]

It was a frontline fight, and both sides were pretty much stationary, so it's not about the stumpy side having better micro.

It still matters a lot how the stumpies were arranged, what stumpies the bulldogs were targeting, which bulldog different stumpies were targeting, etc., and there was still more metal invested in the stumpies than bulldogs, and of course that fight was just one situation where those units can be used...

[imbaczek]

IMHO BA could drop >50% of its units and nobody would notice. that's where starcraft shines - there's no such thing as an unused unit, precisely because there is comparatively so little of them.

[AF]

A gadget that monitored what units got built and sent the statistics off to a server or something that did this based on replays would be useful

[Argh]

IMHO BA could drop >50% of its units and nobody would notice. that's where starcraft shines - there's no such thing as an unused unit, precisely because there is comparatively so little of them.

Exactly.

[SwiftSpear]

IMHO BA could drop >50% of its units and nobody would notice. that's where starcraft shines - there's no such thing as an unused unit, precisely because there is comparatively so little of them.

Infested terrans.

[BlueTemplar]

That's a very specific unit, you can't even build it if you don't capture a command center.
Even units like queens get sometimes used in starcraft... but what's the last time you used gremlins or pelicans?

[Jazcash]

IMHO BA could drop >50% of its units and nobody would notice. that's where starcraft shines - there's no such thing as an unused unit, precisely because there is comparatively so little of them.

Agreed, but that's the awesomeness of BA. You suddenly discover units that are total win every once in a while and for a short time, you become a unique player. Then people see you using your unique strategy and copy paste till their heart's content.

[Otherside]

how is units being useless 90 percent of the time awesome ?

[Jazcash]

how is units being useless 90 percent of the time awesome ?

No unit is useless. It's just not made because it's not necessary. In a lot of games, there is a player or two who spam a not very popular unit. For example, a sniper horde, crawling bombs, and mines. When you're winning because of those kind of units and nobody else is using them, you feel awesome.

[JohannesH]

It's just not made because it's not necessary.

Also because people don't know how to use those units, that they have almost never built. Safer to build those units you have seen in action and used a 100 times.

[hunterw]

No unit is useless

cloakable fusion

[BlueTemplar]

I recently played a game when I was core, and I regretted not to be able to build one.
I had most of the buildpower on the front line, and a spot inside two rows of dragon teeth where no enemy unit would have the idea to go.

[Sleksa]

That's a very specific unit, you can't even build it if you don't capture a command center.
Even units like queens get sometimes used in starcraft... but what's the last time you used gremlins or pelicans?

When's the last time you used marines or firebats against another terran? Can you even remember the last time you saw valkyries?

Or when was the last time you built anything but zerglings scourges and mutas in a zerg v zerg matchup? What about devourers?

Quite a few units are useless in certain matchups in starcraft~~

The t2 units can be a bit underwhelming (in BA). For instance, yesterday I saw 2 bulldogs lose to ~10 stumpies. I don't think this should happen : a bulldog costs 4+ stumpies in metal and 8+ in energy, AND you need a t2 fac to build it.

It was a frontline fight, and both sides were pretty much stationary, so it's not about the stumpy side having better micro.

You just completely missed the point in my post.