Supreme Annihilation U75 V1.0 discussion

[Cephei]

hmm...pressed it and it worked for me..
Try a different browser maybe..

okay nvm it was my NoScript Addon for Firefox, im still not used to it, thanks

[Google_Frog]

fixed units entering into enemy labs bug.

How did you fix this?

[Gota]

Added the gadget from CA.

[Google_Frog]

That gadget will move units to the front if they enter the sides of labs. I didn't check the sides for speed reasons. You'll have to edit some lab footprints to stop this. Afaik the only labs with open sides are coralab and corvp.

[fraghawk]

A player can estimate the firing range of turrets by himself,getting better at it the more he plays.

or, the defenserange widgit could show an estimated aeria, like a ring shape, or a circle that is x away, and within x and x distence from the anti nuke, turret, anti air.

[Gota]

Supreme Annihilation U9 V1.0:

*Added the autoquit widget.
*Leveler will now be a bit better vs air.
*The text line that shows the number of selected units has been moved to the side.
*Laser turrets deal more damage to air transporters and to air units in general
(to make it a bit harder to combomb and harder to move with a transport near enemy defensive lines).
*Nano Turrets renamed to show they repair slower for their cost.
*Fighter planes now have standardized damages.
*Made bombers bomb manually.
*Commanders do not die of a com explosion if it happens at a certain distance(within blast radius).
*A commander now needs to shoot several dguns at another commander to kill it.
*Corpses of Commanders are now worth a bit less metal.

link: http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1677

[Wingflier]

I was doing some testing with SA U9. Though I think that this problem originates with the change you made in U8, when you made the fighters turn more sharply.

For some reason, in big air battles of fighters, and this applies to both T1 and T2, many of the fighters involved will "clump" together and fly on top of each other for a long time. Usually until destroyed. This makes the actual fights look extremely awkward and creates some weird situations.

The easiest way to see this is to open your spring.exe file and do an 'air combat test' on any map. You will see almost immediately what I'm talking about.

Should be an easy fix but I just wanted to let you know.

Keep up the good work!

Wing

[Forboding Angel]

It's actually caused by removing unit collisions on planes, which results in muchly increased performance, but you can get clumping like that. Protip, rightclick - linemove.

[Alchemist]

*Leveler will now be a bit better vs air.
*Laser turrets deal more damage to air transporters and to air units in general
(to make it a bit harder to combomb and harder to move with a transport near enemy defensive lines).
*Corpses of Commanders are now worth a bit less metal.

FAIL

[Gota]

Why is that fail?

[Wingflier]

Don't mind him, he's just trolling peacefully.

[smoth]

or he knows it is pointless to try and say to yan, no, bad dog. Yan believes that there is his opinion and if it isn't his than it is the wrong one.

[Gota]

You mean i cannot ask why he thinks the changes are bad?
I have a rational behind the changes and I suppose he has behind his critic.
Smoth,please do not post in my thread any more.

in any case a small update.

Supreme Annihilation U10 V1.0:
A quick fix version.

Mod files size halved.
Fighters will stack much less often and for shorter periods of time.
also sorted combat engineers build lists.
the console will not longer build t2 kbots and the freaker wont build vehicles.

http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1677

[Alchemist]

*Leveler will now be a bit better vs air.

Levelers are already pretty powerful against ground units, there is no need to give them an anti-air bonus and make them completely overpowered.

*Laser turrets deal more damage to air transporters and to air units in general
(to make it a bit harder to combomb and harder to move with a transport near enemy defensive lines).

This is pointless, if you want to avoid getting air rushed just build AA turrets. They even have much larger range!

*Corpses of Commanders are now worth a bit less metal.

2500 Metal is a sweet incentive to go rushing towards the corpse and heat up the battle.

[Gota]

ok,valid points,let me respond but first let me ask you if your thinking of SA or Ba when responding?

About the levelers.I only made them a bit better vs air and they are not THAT powerful.
SA wreckage takes time to reclaim and levelers suffer from wreckage more than most units since they cant shoot over them and when they shoot at them they end up hurting themselves in many cases.
Air in SA is much better and much more usable than in BA anyway.
Another point is the fact core has no stand alone gunships in T1 while arm does and another is the fact that unlike other t1 tanks levers,because of their very fast projectiles,feel like they should be okaish vs air(they will still be shredded by gunships cost for cost).

About the AA turrets.
IN AA/BA/SA the fact AA doesn't shoot land(in XTA and OTA it does) as well makes it a problem to respond with adequate AA before you see the first air attack.
At that moment there are 2 extreme possibilities:
#1 you get raped by an unexpected huge swarm of air units.
#2 you have AA cause u guessed hed build air and u completely own him.

I wanna avoid such situations since it breaks the "scout->respond gameplay".
The AA capabilities of the laser turrets are not great,they will still be shredded by air units.
Player do not want to build AA unless they know the enemy is building air units.
usually players do not know the enemy is going air until they are already attacked with air units,and will not build AA(if the enemy goes only land but they build AA they will be spending resources on defenses that will prove completely useless and might lose them the game).
now when gunships or bombers attack laser towers of all sorts they will take at least some damage before destroying the turrets thus mitigating the air/land countering/weakeness)

The reduction in commander metal valuesis not that big.
From 2500 to 2000.
I did it since commanders now have good chances to survive an enemy commander's explosion and I think a slightly less metal rich corpse will prevent the wining com from finishing the guy that lost the commander in 99% of cases.
That and the fact wreckage reclaims slower gives the losing player a bit more chances to recover.

I think it's better to make it so that you need to keep playing well through the game if you wanna win and not just win after making one good move.
same with losing.
Losing should be a some what gradual process not a "blinked and completely lost" type of gameplay.
I do think that there should still be critical points which strongly advance you towards victory but IMO a 2500 metal corpse does it too quickly,and thats why I nerfed the wreckage a bit.

Another point is the fact I allowed bombers to manually drop bombs which means that with enough micro they have the opportunity to make much more dmg than before.

Hope this was clear enough and by the way,what is your lobby nickname?

[Alchemist]

Fair counter-points. I'll yield.

Alchemist is the name. I don't log very often, unless I have time, though.

[Tribulexrenamed]

What is this hate campaign against air users? T1 air is almost useless now. Used to be an extremely viable starting option. Not so supreme in my opinion.

[Gota]

In SA??hardly.
The rules of u wanna start air are :
A map with high winds and or a map which doesn't have an easy and fast land access.
Maps i can think of in which air start would be good :
Xanthea terra,Voi Vittu,Incluta,Greenfields,DSD,tabula,small supreme and many other 1v1 maps like sands of war,gods of war,icy run etc...

and i don't mean just for a quick rush and than reclaim the air lab...I mean an air lab with which u can win the game.

[Wingflier]

What is this hate campaign against air users? T1 air is almost useless now. Used to be an extremely viable starting option. Not so supreme in my opinion.

Have you even played SA? Air in SA is extremely good and definitely worth using.

Unlike in BA where the only air you tend to see are fighter screens, bombing runs, and rarely gunships - every air unit in SA is worth using.

T1 Air is especially better because fighters move like fighters should. I mean to say that, while flying, they don't make a huge ass arc every time they turn. This is retarded, year 6000 whatever, and in BA the fighters turn like bi-planes. In fact, bi-planes could turn even better than that.

What this means is that fighters are much more capable of doing their job because they can actually stay on target, rather than doing a run and coming back 10 minutes later for the next.

Bombers, gunships, and every other T1 air unit has subsequently been improved in this fashion. Not to mention that cost vs. cost, in SA you get more for your money.

If you were to do an air start in a 1v1 in BA, there is no possible way you could win against a skilled player. It would be a joke. But as Basic said, in SA, it's definitely a possibility.

So if you want to complain about crappy balanced air, I think you're in the wrong thread :)

Alright here are some bugs/inconsistencies I noticed. Most of them are pretty small and may not even be worth messing with. But I thought I should make you away of them anyways:

1.Consul Buildstart. I mentioned this before. But before a Consul builds, repairs, reclaims, whatever, there is about a 3 second delay. When repairing or reclaiming in a large radius, this can be a pretty big deal.

2.For some reason, the Aircraft Plants in SA don't have the "Land at *" option. So the only way to choose when your aircraft land at the repair pad is to continually select them all after they've been built. This should probably be fixed.

3.You know that "exciting" feature of Spring where instead of all planes just exploding when they die, some of them look as though they still have half health and slowly fall into the ground? Well, in SA, your nanos on patrol make an attempt to repair these. Obviously a fruitless effort, and in a big battle, can be pretty devastating to your defenses.

4.This is probably the most important one. The T2 fighters for both sides act like they should when set on patrol. They basically ignore ground units altogether unless you tell them to attack. The T1 fighters however do something pretty annoying. When set on patrol, they will go off their flight path for miles just to attack ground targets. Instead of ignoring them and only waiting for air to come. This usually results in their death by AA. Obviously, the damage they do vs. ground is so weak, you should probably change T1 fighters to be more like T2.

5.The Core BlackDawn's description is "Advanced Sabot Gunship" or something of that nature. There is nothing in there to indicate that it actually takes less damage from flaks (which, as far as I'm concerned, is the only reason you would build it) like the Arm one does. Interestingly, in modinfo, for Supreme Annihilation 2.0, the BlackDawn doesn't take less damage from flaks. So you might want to double-check if they actually do and change the description so that people know why to build them.

Anyways that's all for now. Keep up the good work!

Wing

[Gota]

Hmm good points.
Weird about the T1 fighters I was sure i fixed that one..ill look into all this.
Maybe some revision of the nano widget is necessary.
Anyway,I'm writing all this down for next V.