[old] Balanced Annihilation V6.81

[YHCIR]

Juggernaut - small speed buff

Yeh, the jugg is pretty much useless, it gets a lot of HP but is too slow to be useful.
It doesn't get made on the smaller maps because the game usually ends before T3. On the larger maps it takes it 10 minutes to cross the map, by which time a single bertha can kill it.

[ginekolog]

Cans have enough HP, rest I agree with.

not realy, compare can to zeus - cans loose hard. (+ require E to fire)

Other changes regret suggested would be usefull.

[TradeMark]

Can we have this "passable corpses" option (yes, there already is "no corpses" option), zwzsg made some LUA code for it:
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/downloa ... hp?id=1400
Its not perfect, but should work at least in BA.

[BeefofAges]

Fatboys, for example, are sort of the equivalent of Goliaths

No.

Even sumos suck

No.

Anyone who actually cares more about unofficial vs official versions of BA than about improving the unit balance is a moron.

No.


Kbots as a tier do not suck.

Some changes are in order though, based on game experience rather than stats and/or useless debates.

Thud/Hammer - small range buff
Cans - hp buff
Pyros - hp buff
Zipper - bigger cost
Juggernaut - small speed buff
Commanders - immunity vs core drone emp (40 emp drones can emp a comm)

This is not how you criticize an argument. This is how you argue like a five year old.

[Jazcash]

Regret's very good at contradiction and upsetting the new guys so you should probably just ignore him

[smoth]

yeah wingflier is still seething from regret.. I know I WAS THERE in the thread reading rage.

[Llamadeus]

I think the main problem with kbots at tier one is that thuds and hammers don't have a clearly defined role. Storms and rockos both outrange and outpace them (the benefits of having a unit that does both of these things should be pretty obvious), and have the advantage of also outranging the most ubiquitous defensive structure in the game. Thuds/hammers are outclassed in both combat effectiveness and in versatility. Personally, I think the best solution would be to switch their respective speeds, and then possibly increase the difference further.

Another problem is the lack of an indrect fire kbot at tier one: kbots really have trouble dealing with HLTs.

The T2 balance could probably use some tweaking (or rethinking completely), especially with respect to better defining unit roles where gaps exist. Core sort of needs a good crowd control kbot and a better raider. The Fatboy needs to decide whether or not it is a crowd control unit to begin with or an artillery unit.

at least thats just my opinion!!

[Pxtl]

Well, if you're going to talk about the Fatboy, then take a look across the aisle at the Goli and you'll see it's not much better.

Really, so many units in BA are just noobtraps. Basically, the rule is this: every factory has an assault unit (rocko, stumpy, bulldog, zeus, banshee, pheonix, etc). For the most part, stick to that, with the occaisional smattering of support units. Some factories have an assault and a raider unit (fido, pyro, flash, panther) - use the raider until the game gets too heavy, then switch to the assault. Use lots of them. While the pros do know the occaisional uses for the freak units, they tend to do just fine while ignoring their existence.

[Llamadeus]

I think the Goliath is a unit that's generally underrated by a lot of players. Its stats look kinda crappy on paper when compared to, say, the Reaper: three times the cost for not even a 50% increase in hitpoints, etc. But its splash damage means it scales well, and has the advantage of outranging every other direct combat unit and the ability to slaughter groups of weaker units wholesale.

Also here's a thought: every T2 unit with around 1000 hitpoints is practically useless in combat (e.g. Fido, Maverick, Recluse). They simply aren't durable enough to compete at this tech level. Consider: a Viper will kill any unit with 1320 hitpoints or less in two hits.

[Pxtl]

I had no idea its range was so long. I suppose the problem I usually run into is that its range vastly exceeds its sight range (and that of most of its supporting units) so in a normal front-line engagement it's not really getting to capitalize on that range. I guess it was another "tried to build it a couple of times, it got killed before doing substantial damage while the Reapers surrounding it held up just fine in the fray, not going to bother building it again".

[Regret]

This is not how you criticize an argument. This is how you argue like a five year old.

I just wrote where he was wrong.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

why is 40 emp drones stunning a commander bad?

also, I still think the high e-cost of ak/peewee in respect to their M cost is biggest weakness of kbots; you cant use them the same way you can use flash/gator simply because spamming them early at the same pace (m/tick) as another player spams flash requires 250% more energy- you cannot match the vehicle players spam without a far more developed economy, and by that stage the low hp of these units means they are scaled out of use

[TheFatController]

why is 40 emp drones stunning a commander bad?

It's not, weird rare risky strategies like this are what gives BA replay value and should be encouraged.

[Regret]

why is 40 emp drones stunning a commander bad?

Thought commander was supposed to be emp immune

[adin_panther]

Even sumos suck

This is wrong. Last time i checked sumos still were one of the strongest units in the game. Combine them with a few t2 transports and they will own almost everything. Without a transport they are the best base defense against land units ever.

[BaNa]

Without a transport they are the best base defense against land units ever.

O_o

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Thud/Hammer - small range buff

why? I mean, how does this solve their failure? the AK/PW is the raider that supposedly fills the flash/gator role
the storm/rocko are skirmishers and provide effective anti llt anti porc

the thud/hammer are really going to be the stumpy equivalent; late t1 brute force spam. atm they are way less effective than stumpy spam because their hp and to some extent dps is lacking. I could be wrong, but how about increasing their HP so they stand up to this role a little better? I think HP would be prefferable over range, dps, etc since these units are more for foward grinding at defences or other slow, heavy units (they track to slowly to usually even hit flashes and other raiders) rather than outranging defences (which storms aleady do) it'd be good to have somthing out the kbot lab capable of standing and fighting against heavier tanks (kbot tactics generally involve skirmishing backwards until you have a critical mass of storms)

also:

I still think the high e-cost of ak/peewee in respect to their M cost is biggest weakness of kbots; you cant use them the same way you can use flash/gator simply because spamming them early at the same pace (m/tick) as another player spams flash requires 250% more energy- you cannot match the vehicle players spam without a far more developed economy, and by that stage the low hp of these units means they are scaled out of use

agree, disagree?

[adin_panther]

Without a transport they are the best base defense against land units ever.

O_o

xD It's true. I've seen armies crushed because of a few sumos. Their lasers are especially good against zippers and the like.

[Regret]

why?

It's a hunch. Like a picking the right colors in your painting, there's no solid logic behind it.

agree, disagree?

Agreeing or disagreeing on something with someone is completely irrelevant to the current state of the matter at hand.

[Pxtl]

1v0ry_k1ng

I think the difference is that the stumpy still moves fast enough to overrun any longer-ranged adversaries. A squad of stumpies can close with HLTs very quickly. Meanwhile, the Hammer will get pounded with longer-ranged fire while it closes into firing range. To me, this means the best buffs for a Hammer would be (a) firing range (although that would make it redundant with the Rocko), or (b) armour and/or speed, which would allow it to survive entering firing range.