Question Regarding TA-IP

[Sheekel]

Split from another thread:

If I remake OTA models and re-use the OTA textures, but require the use of the TA CD-ROM, technically I'm not distributing any copywrited content because the models are mine and the textures come from the CD, right? How is this defferent from unituniverse.com?

Or can they copywright unit concepts as well...

I dont think Atari is coming, but if they do, I'd like to have my ass covered somewhat

[smoth]

unit universe models have a reference to the archive files within the ota hpi file. Not the actual textures .grp file with them. You follow?

[Sheekel]

so I write a gadget that forces use of the OTA CD and load texture data from there?

Or modify the sauce so when XTA is installed you have to use the CD to extract totala.hpi to your spring folder, and the mod loads it from there

[smoth]

well you could just replace the textures used manualy. As in draw new ones and be free of that 1 issue.

if you open the .3do you can see the textures used and replace them accordingly.

[Sheekel]

not interested in redoing textures, the old ones have a certain look/feel that I'd like to keep for nostalgia's sake in XTA

[smoth]

ok, well remember the solution I posted a few times? You are going to have to extract the textures out of a ta install's hpi file. you cannot just use the cd as core contengency is assumed in spring. IIRC CC had new textures as well as new unit types like hovers.

The extracted files will have to have an alpha map aplied for shiney layers otherwise it will look like ass. Have fun here

you will also have to make all team texture files at texture 0 be 1,0,1<->0,0,0 range for team color to work. On and delete the other subtextures of your team color textures. Then place the in the unittextures/tatextures/ directory.

I have said this three times now. Anything else would require spring specific patches for ota specific stuff. Or you could just redo the textures.

Feel free to ignore this part but as someone who had a TC for ta and converted to spring years ago. What looked good in ta may not look good at all in spring. So while many of the old unit universe models looked good, part of that standard was also efficiency and having goatse sized geometry holes on the bottom faces will cause issues along with the fact that most of the time the ta textures used on those models are misaligned or look like ass up close.

[Sheekel]

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow...if the extracted files require an alpha map then why do the textures in otacontent.sdz look shiney? Someone already did the texture work on them?

[smoth]

yes someone did the texture work. I have no idea who did it though, I was the one who made the teamcolor textures purple for the devs btw, again.

[Sheekel]

So using the content directly from OTA is a no go. Instead of using the ota content from ccdata.ccx, I might require a check for the CD-ROM or OTA install, and from there use otacontent.sdz as usual?

However I would still be distributing the modified TA-IP so its really not getting around the problem at all...maybe borrow .3d0 textures from EE

[smoth]

that is the thing, I was there when fang was stripping the ota stuff out. the method of opening a 3do to get the texture name is how he replaced the textures he used. I don't know if it still works but you should be able to load your project /give all and then get a bounty of texture errors telling you all the textures it is missing. Otherwise I recommend the open the 3do option.

[Sheekel]

ehh i might just go with the distribution of illegals and hope for a pleasant but firm C&D should atari come a'knocking...

Dear atari, if you're reading this, please think of the children!!!!!

[SeanHeron]

You might well know the project, but I thought I'd just point out (incase you don't that the TA 3D effort (http://ta3d.darkstars.co.uk/), as far as I know want's to force users to have a TA CD in their drive. They might even have it worked out already, and their graphics look quite mean as well, if I must say.

So if you really want to stick to TA stuff, and do so legally as well, that might be something worth checking out (I don't know what provisions there are for adding additional self made content - that's something you'd need to find out there as well).
Sean

[smoth]

sean I understand you are trying to help but the cd for ta does not contain the content for Core Contingency which was an expansion. so if ta3d has hovers which it does, odds are it is in violation also.

[Argh]

Technically... I don't think that the EULA on OTA permits any of this. Dunno, I'd have to read it again in greater detail. Most EULAs don't, though.

I strongly suspect all of this is a complete waste of time, from a legal perspective.

[lurker]

I think being supportive to the modding community says more than a EULA, which is a dubious concept anyway. And even there, if the end user breaks the EULA, what do they do, revoke people's license to play TA?

[Argh]

EULAs are just contracts between users and creators of IP. There isn't any other legal framework that could work, frankly.

IP owners can't sell you a copy of the IP itself, then they have nothing to sell.

It's no different than a book- you didn't buy the words, you certainly don't have any rights to the words. You merely bought the right to read them, and to carry them about in the physical format they were printed in, and to sell that physical object, unmodified, to a third party, all without the publisher surrendering their copyright.

They just exchange certain rights to use the IP under certain conditions, for a fee. There's nothing inherently evil about it, they have to make money somehow.

At least most modern EULAs allow you to transfer your rights to the use of the software you're using to another party without breaking the EULA nowadays. For awhile, resellers of games were technically in violation of the law, and so were the people selling their old games.

As for the rest of what you're saying... we probably shouldn't speculate about any of that, until we know what happens with TAU.


[EDIT]Yay, FU will survive. That's the most important part. Moving the Forum isn't anything like as bad as losing the file archives would be.[/EDIT]

[SeanHeron]

Since people (including me ) are lazy, I've had a look, and here are links to the appropriate pages: http://ta3d.darkstars.co.uk/help/install.html http://ta3d.darkstars.co.uk/help/index.html .

If I understand it correctly, you don't need the CD in drive for play, just for installation - and if you want to play with the CC, yes you need that on your harddrive. However, this is no modification of any files, and no distibution of any files whatsoever, so my (vague) guess is that it should be legal - at least if OpenTTD is legal, than this could be.

I guess a question might be if the EULA restricts useing the content in ways other than with the original engine - or says something about not reverse engineering the engine (which I guess is what you might say has de facto been done).

Still, like I said, I think anyone wanting to stick to OTA content and stay legal has best chances checking that project out (and custom mods are possible from my understanding - though of course an XTA will always be a modification of TA content and thus illegal).

[Edit for clarity]

[VonGratz]

that is the thing, I was there when fang was stripping the ota stuff out. the method of opening a 3do to get the texture name is how he replaced the textures he used. I don't know if it still works but you should be able to load your project /give all and then get a bounty of texture errors telling you all the textures it is missing. Otherwise I recommend the open the 3do option.

It worked for me in the last TA related BattleFleet version.Also Ive substituted a lot of sounds, etc....

[Saktoth]

jK has replaced 60% of the OTA textures for CA, most of the most commonly used ones. They are higher quality but very similiar to the origionals.

You can probably use them, im not sure about liscence but its jK so probably GPL.