[old] Balanced Annihilation V6.81

[BaNa]

http://modinfo.adune.nl/

is your friend

178000/95000= almost 2

[adin_panther]

Does not sound as good as f*cking google it, though.

I mean ... f*cking modinfo.adune it ?
F*cking modinfo it ?
MI it ?!

[Gota]

and why the HUGE reduction in chainsaw dps?reload time increased by 60%....that means a reduction of 60% in dps...was it unbelievably over powered before to get such a drastic nerf?

• Reload time increased 60%
• Reload time is 1.60 times as much
• The unit fires 1 / 1.60 = .625 times as many shots
• The unit does .625 times as much damage
• The unit does 1 - .625 = .375 times less of its original damage
  (hey look, .375 is also how many meters in an elmo)
• The unit does .375 * 100% = 37.5% less of its original damage
• The unit has been nerfed 37.5%

Also this is not the same as reducing its damage by 37.5% either, cause it still does 100% of its damage on the first round (ie when planes fly in) it just does less constant damage which is what flak is for...

It doesn't matter because the first shot will not kill a even a t1 bomber..thus this change in reload time doens't matter.
If you were to keep the dps but increase the damage per shot enough to kill a bomber with one shot than it would matter partially and only in occasions where there aren't many bombers since bombers are usually sent to deliver only one bombing run and if they do more its a bonus...

[Wingflier]

Okay I'm a little confused as to why Chainsaws/Eradicators were nerfed. In a previous post, Fatcontroller called them OP, but I fail to see how they are or ever were OP at all.

First of all, they can't even kill a core T1 bomber in one volley. That's extremely sad considering that they only shoot one volley approximately every 6 seconds (with 3 seconds being the actual volley, 3 seconds reload time). What this basically means is that you get the ability to kill a T1 core bomber every 12 seconds. Fantastic.

Also, they are "bomb-resistant". Okay what idiot would waste his bombers destroying this unit anyways? It's barely a threat at all.

Some people might say that the fact that it has 1200 range makes it worth building. I very much disagree. 1200 range, while large, is easy to keep air units out of. This unit does not substitute as a Mercury in any sense, which has a range of 2400 (not so easy to avoid) and a huge aoe.

The only time I can even imagine a Chainsaw/Eradicator being remotely useful is if a noob was to cluster his bombers together so tightly that the Eradicator hit 3 or 4 bombers at once because of its small aoe.

But no professional player does this. And even if I knew I were playing against noobs, I still wouldn't build this.

If a flight of 50 bombers passed over one of these things, you might kill one if you're lucky, maybe even two. But that's it.

I mean come on! It costs 700 metal, 8100 energy, and has a build time of 19000, LONGER than an adv. vehicle plant.

With that amount of metal alone you could have over 4 bombers. Of course it would cost you a little more energy, but bombers can go anywhere on the map, and actually do their job.

And don't even get me started on what happens when an Eradicator is surrounded by gunships. With it's crappy targeting and huge reload time, massacre doesn't even fit the bill.

So please, can somebody explain to me why this unit got nerfed, instead of buffed.

Wing

[TradeMark]

suggestion:
Could we get better antinuke range display for my team antinukes?

Just like when i select my own antinukes, white circle if there is antinukes left, and black circle if not.

Okay I'm a little confused as to why Chainsaws/Eradicators were nerfed. In a previous post, Fatcontroller called them OP, but I fail to see how they are or ever were OP at all.

Hmm, i also wonder why chainsaw was nerfed, i have always thought it should be buffed, since it costs more than those SAM packs etc. and didnt really help against bombers as it should...

--

+ added to modit: http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?MOD=ba681

[Gota]

Okay I'm a little confused as to why Chainsaws/Eradicators were nerfed. In a previous post, Fatcontroller called them OP, but I fail to see how they are or ever were OP at all.

First of all, they can't even kill a core T1 bomber in one volley. That's extremely sad considering that they only shoot one volley approximately every 6 seconds (with 3 seconds being the actual volley, 3 seconds reload time). What this basically means is that you get the ability to kill a T1 core bomber every 12 seconds. Fantastic.

Also, they are "bomb-resistant". Okay what idiot would waste his bombers destroying this unit anyways? It's barely a threat at all.

Some people might say that the fact that it has 1200 range makes it worth building. I very much disagree. 1200 range, while large, is easy to keep air units out of. This unit does not substitute as a Mercury in any sense, which has a range of 2400 (not so easy to avoid) and a huge aoe.

The only time I can even imagine a Chainsaw/Eradicator being remotely useful is if a noob was to cluster his bombers together so tightly that the Eradicator hit 3 or 4 bombers at once because of its small aoe.

But no professional player does this. And even if I knew I were playing against noobs, I still wouldn't build this.

If a flight of 50 bombers passed over one of these things, you might kill one if you're lucky, maybe even two. But that's it.

I mean come on! It costs 700 metal, 8100 energy, and has a build time of 19000, LONGER than an adv. vehicle plant.

With that amount of metal alone you could have over 4 bombers. Of course it would cost you a little more energy, but bombers can go anywhere on the map, and actually do their job.

And don't even get me started on what happens when an Eradicator is surrounded by gunships. With it's crappy targeting and huge reload time, massacre doesn't even fit the bill.

So please, can somebody explain to me why this unit got nerfed, instead of buffed.

Wing

Its a balancing thought based on OTA's legacy where missile towers were an "all purpose turret".At least i hope it's cause of that.
Though its pretty clear to all of us nobody here has the right to accuse any of BA's units of being unbalanced(I'm not being sarcastic).

[Wingflier]

Not sure where you're going with that Gota.

Balanced Annihilation has always been very open-minded about the community's opinion on what is balanced and imbalanced.

Regardless, the Chainsaws should be fixed.

Wing

[REVENGE]

This might seems like a crazy idea, but consider slightly nerfing the Anni's range, and giving it the ability to toggle between single target fire and sweep fire (with less damage).

Also, there's really no need to give Amphib Yard the T2 AA kbot.

Full support of the removal of special damage values.

[REVENGE]

First of all, they can't even kill a core T1 bomber in one volley.

Bullshit.

This unit does not substitute as a Mercury in any sense

So please, can somebody explain to me why this unit got nerfed, instead of buffed.

Yeah ok other than those two points, I can agree with you.

I believe these changes were made to differentiate them from the SAMs, but the nerf was a little too severe. A reload time increase of 1.5 would've been plenty, but the SAMs needed serious buffing.

[TheFatController]

By the way NOIZE and I have agreed the chainsaws nerf was too severe, so next version itll be adjusted in some way if people want to move the debate on :)

[Gota]

How did you decide that?
Personnelly,I have never actually built a chainsaw in BA,I hope the others commenting here know for sure its not strong enough especially if the devs are attuned to our advice on balance.

[YokoZar]

Thank you for including the OTA content, by the way - this will allow springlobby to not have to offer to install it, in turn allowing us to put it into the Ubuntu repository.

[TheFatController]

Gota are you just posting in this thread in the pathetic attempt that if you try to make BA look bad people might play SA?

Cause thats how some of your comments come across to me

[Gota]

I'm just saying that in the case of the chainsaw I just looked briefly at the numbers...I have never actually built one ingame while playing BA.

[Dragoon]

The chainsaw was very weak before...now they're pitiful.

But I'm glad that the makers of BA listens to the community and will fix this issue in the next update. hip hip horray!!!

[YokoZar]

Range is more important with AA than some are giving credit - if you don't know where the attack is coming, then it takes about 2 or 3 SAMs to cover the area of one chainsaw. When you do know where the attack is coming, then the higher range chainsaw might get in multiple shots (firing earlier and also occasionally later and perhaps more often in the case of a flyover).

On the other hand, I was under the (possibly misinformed) perception that the best AA on a damage/cost basis was to actually spam defenders. Is this still true?

[el_matarife]

Gota are you just posting in this thread in the pathetic attempt that if you try to make BA look bad people might play SA?

It took you this long to figure it out?

[ginekolog]

By the way NOIZE and I have agreed the chainsaws nerf was too severe, so next version itll be adjusted in some way if people want to move the debate on :)

Well u was surprsed about nerf too, i thougt u buffed it for 40%, which *perhaps* would make it usefull. Its just a crap unit for this cost, even with 50% cost reduction it wouldn't be worth it imo.

But they were allways useless so no big issue here, just unit with no use.

[Wingflier]

First of all, they can't even kill a core T1 bomber in one volley.

Bullshit.

This unit does not substitute as a Mercury in any sense

So please, can somebody explain to me why this unit got nerfed, instead of buffed.

Yeah ok other than those two points, I can agree with you.

I believe these changes were made to differentiate them from the SAMs, but the nerf was a little too severe. A reload time increase of 1.5 would've been plenty, but the SAMs needed serious buffing.

Have you actually TESTED to see if it can kill a Core T1 bomber in one volley? Or do you enjoy making yourself look stupid?

Either way, you can go into a test game right now, build a Core T1 bomber, build an Eradicator, and watch as it takes 2 volleys to take it down.

Wing

[MR.D]

ChainSaw and Eradicator have always been crap, always.

Far too expensive, always weak damage, can't and never could take out a bomber attack, and just forget about taking down T2 bombers with it ever, pre patch or not.

Only worthwhile AA is your own fighters or enough Pulverizers in staggered rows. `.`.`.`.`

Packo and SAM are halfways decent now, but still lack the punch for taking down a whole bomber wing.

I still think that the problem with effective AA vs bombers, is not the AA at all, but how the bombers are.

Bombers can drop their bombs at a distance almost equal to the reaction range of most AA, so as the first missle hits a bomber, the bomber's bombs are already headed to the target.

While this is realistic, it doesn't allow ground based AA to be effective and live long enough to really stop a bomber squadron from reaching its objective.

There are three solutions that could work.
#1. Increase basic AA range (Pulverizers, Flak)

#2. Make bombers use a shorter distance attack like a regular beam type weapon would use, instead of gravity drop.

#3. Give ground based AA the firepower it needs to stop a bomber 1v1 (based on E/M/BT costs if it is not already).

Example of #3.
1 AA Pulveriser should kill 1 bomber, bomber should kill Pulverizer.
Equal trade(or adjust costs).

1 T2 flak position should kill 1 bomber, 1 T2 bomber should kill 1 Flak. Equal trade(or adjust costs).