limit player number to 8-10 per game.

[knorke]

5v5 or 8v8 DSD, who cares? These players will always go for the largest possible game anyway..

what i hate most is when they are 3 players in a battle, host says "+1 for 2v2."
then suddendly like 3402 player join and "ololol rehost for 6v6."
I think its the same reason why there is only shit music on the radio
Maybe a #channel for small 1v1, 2v2 pickup games would be cool, so you can just message someone and have a quick game.

[CarRepairer]

5v5 or 8v8 DSD, who cares? These players will always go for the largest possible game anyway..

what i hate most is when they are 3 players in a battle, host says "+1 for 2v2."
then suddendly like 3402 player join and "ololol rehost for 6v6."
I think its the same reason why there is only shit music on the radio
Maybe a #channel for small 1v1, 2v2 pickup games would be cool, so you can just message someone and have a quick game.

Perhaps there can lobby support to do like an autohost-type thing and spec everyone past a certain game size you specify, not autolock.

[smoth]

I cannot believe I am going to give you a proper response.

Why cant it be true for spring?

Because spring is the engine. Not the game running within it.

None of you addressed my points I hope its not cause you didn't understand them.

Your english is clear, you ideas are just being rejected.

OTA mods in their current state are not meant to be played with huge teams.

If you limit the player count you are limiting it for all games. Not only ota based stuff, you have to remember some people may want more players in their projects and still other projects might want to set a limit lower than 4, who knows. Leave that to the games, slighting other projects for ta based stuff needs to stop.

[knorke]

spec everyone past a certain game size you specify

doesnt it already work like this?

[Gota]

I cannot believe I am going to give you a proper response.

Why cant it be true for spring?

Because spring is the engine. Not the game running within it.

None of you addressed my points I hope its not cause you didn't understand them.

Your english is clear, you ideas are just being rejected.

OTA mods in their current state are not meant to be played with huge teams.

If you limit the player count you are limiting it for all games. Not only ota based stuff, you have to remember some people may want more players in their projects and still other projects might want to set a limit lower than 4, who knows. Leave that to the games, slighting other projects for ta based stuff needs to stop.

You didn't read all the past posts and i don't blame you but i specified that i only meant OTA mods and in no way an engine change..I just forget to specify it in each and every post.
When i refer to spring in this matter i am speaking only of OTA based mods.

[Gota]

spec everyone past a certain game size you specify

doesnt it already work like this?

This will not help...People just join the biggest battle and small battles are extremely hard to fill now..
I say again,OTA based mods are not meant to be played 8v8.

Bigger games do not encourage good playing and are tough stages for any noob to learn anything of value.
Limiting player caps is not my idea it is a tool that is there to be used as a way to define boundaries to how a game is intended to be played.
It is part of a game's balance.
The community was doing fine with a 10 player cap.
nobody was complaining and none of the new players who start playing OTA based mods are at owe at the number of players per game,which indicates that it is not something that will drive people from playing.

4v4 5v5 games will encourage players to play better and learn and will allow better communication and coordination.
4v4,5v5 games are closer to OTA's native player caps per game and it is also true for OTA based mods on the spring engine.
I am not trying to force anything and i cant.
I ma only trying to explain why it is a positive change and i have yet to see persuasive counter arguments that i didn't answer fully with evidence of existing conditions that were or are observed.

[KDR_11k]

Why do you keep saying OTA mods when you really mean SA? The other mods won't implement such a limit.

[Gota]

No i dont mean SA since if it is implemented in a single mod,while others like it still have 16 player caps,it wont work.
It will just be another 4v4\5v5 game amongst 8v8s.
Why wont they?

[KaiserJ]

my two cents...

i can sympathize with gotas intentions...

people tend to place a lot of faith in "strength in numbers" both IRL and in games, so games do tend to bloat quite a bit; and beyond that, i can also agree that it's easy for players not to gain experience as much playing with teammates who can easily win the game for them without assistance.

however... look at counterstrike! most maps are designed for games of 5v5... and yet... 16v16 games go down all the time, with an even sprinkling of noobs and pros mixed in together... it changes the dynamics of the game a lot (makes a big difference when you KNOW that there will be at least one person around the next corner.) does winning a match of 16v16 require as much skill as winning in a 5v5? probably not... or at least, different sets of skills.

i suppose that's the difference of playing for the win, and playing for fun... i can remember losing clan matches and totally freaking out... i can remember winning clan matches (not often hur hur) and feeling like a million bucks!

through all of this disorganization and craziness... new players emerge who are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of skill! why does this happen? because counterstrike has a well-established system of teamplay and organized clans. players are often exposed to clanplay in counterstrike; if you are good enough, you are invited for a scrimmage, and maybe will be recruited... if your clan is good enough, you may be promoted up a league, if you suck, you will be relegated down. of course, many players are merely there to play the game casually, and have no desire to improve their skills... throwing them into a smaller match with good players will not make these casual gamers better.

so i guess my counter-proposition is... lets try again (because i know people have attempted this before) to create a reasonable clanplay system, something with a round-robin league to start (so that it doesnt matter how many teams want to play) and then an elimination tournament at the end to determine who truly is the best.

lots of good things are happening in spring these days; integrated news into the lobby would help keep people interested in league/clanplay as well as instilling the desire for them to join the league and play... we are working with a nice spring stable version right now, so there shouldn't be any problems of a technical nature. also, we have a lot of springers interested in commented replays, in both in the aspects of producing them and of watching them, so there shouldnt be any lack of coverage or information available about the games... in fact, there seems to be enough beef and tension surrounding various social webs of the community, that if certain players signed up, then others would go "oh haha i HAVE to play now, if only to annihilate ____". i'm also aware that some of the top tier players have recently given up spring; maybe this would be something to draw them back into the fold.

there are TONS of active clans, but as far as i can see... no scrimmages! IMO, its time for [teh], [PWN], [PinK], [PiRO], [XHC], [GL_HF], [K], [PYB], [7uP], [fi], [SiC], [BLC], [eXe], [ZxC], [MARS], [Friends] and anyone else i've forgotten to put their clans honor and rep on the line all of these guys AFAIK have at least 3 people who are good enough IMO to play in a league.

ofc... theres still the problem of starting the league up... what mod to pick? how big should the teams be? what maps to use? what format should the league / tournament use? how do we get everyone online at once to play? and more importantly... is this a good idea or am i completely off the mark

[smoth]

I don't know, he is still trying to enforce some wierd idea of his. If he doesn't want to play in a >8 game he doesn't have to.

[Spawn_Retard]

PHEW im so glad you didn't include [roll] in that clan list, or it would have made it unfair to start.

[Gota]

None wants to...why?partially BECAUSE there are huge games which do not encourage the least bit of good playing..
There are no new good players..I don't know where you see them..1v1 games are almost non existent and sure as hell no 30 spec join in to watch a 1v1...
If there will be a cap this will change,i am confident.
if not completely reducing player cap than capping all OTA based mods to only allow advanced players to host or join huge games will hopefully push some players that have the potential to a high level of play.
What you are suggesting is impossible in the atmosphere that is partially to blame for the availability of huge games.

[smoth]

games are about fun yan, you might want a highly competitive game with a few good players. Others just want to fuck around with as many people as possible. If we had a 64 play limit, some crazy bastard would host for it and I would fucking join in. Shit would be so cash.

Some players want to play with all their freinds. Some of us have more that 0 real life friends. When I played at lan parties with my college buddies, if a game could not support more than 8 people we couldn't play it because we need to be able to have everyone in game

if you don't like it, host yourself and limit player count to 8 or 10 or 1. I don't see the issue. IIRC there is a way to have excess players on a host go auto spec.

[KaiserJ]

okay, fair enough... maybe my idea is silly and nobody would jump onto it...

but at the same time, its my opinion that in order for people to change what they like, you have to offer them something new instead of restricting what they already have.

with a league implemented, say for 4v4 play, i can almost guarantee that you will see scrimmage games hosted by clans who want to practice for their league games, as well as smaller "fish for talent" games hosted by players who want to start a clan or recruit members.

there need to be long-term rewards and recognition for being good... spring is great fun even if you suck and can be very addictive (i am an example of this) so it's not really a surprise that people can be content to be mediocre players... a league could be the twinkie-on-a-string that would get the players fat with the bloat of "im fine with how good i am right now" moving forward onto the treadmill of becoming better players. offer special rank cups to winners / placers in the tourney (even a wooden spoon icon for participating would be enough for some people) as well as any benefiets that winning a tourney might bring (i've seen games for cash before, no reason to assume that wouldnt happen again.)

as far as new players go... i have a friend who is "average rank" as defined by the lobby ranking (the three chevrons with the black doohickey) who i would say is already a better BA player than most of the silver stars and even some of the gold stars.

a few months ago i played three BA games in a row on a team with a brand new player (he was making converters on the metal spots in the first game) but through listening to his teammates and building a base by example, he had a great handle on his economy and was spamming units like a pro, even before his second chevron...

so there ARE good players coming up gota; it may be hard for you to see because you are a veteran player and it's unlikely that anyone would join right off the bat and have a skillset like yours, and on top of that there are few actual "competitive" games where new players are thrown in together with pros and can prove themselves... but i assure you, it is happening, even as we speak.

spawn : for some reason, i only thought there were 2x [roll]ers... but if you guys are so awesome, then it wont be a problem for you to join a league and play every game with fewer players muahaha <3

[smoth]

I've got no problems with league stuff, only that it never lats or stays around .

I am talking about gota's goofy assed notion. I swear that he is some sort of spoiled brat.

[KDR_11k]

No i dont mean SA since if it is implemented in a single mod,while others like it still have 16 player caps,it wont work.
It will just be another 4v4\5v5 game amongst 8v8s.
Why wont they?

Because noone except you thinks that lowering the player limit is a good idea.

[Wingflier]

Oh, God does. He told me. He talks to me all the time.

I try to ignore him tho.

[Spawn_Retard]

No i dont mean SA since it doesn't work.
It will just be another 4v4\5v5 game amongst 8v8s.
Why wont they?

Fix'd

[Teutooni]

maybe my idea is silly and nobody would jump onto it...

Nope, I'd be all in for competitive team/clan scene. However, it needs more than a simple idea and implementation. Last time we had a well set automated team ladder system and still it never flourished. Needs ideas how to catch players interests. If someone has some or wants to discuss this more, start a new thread.

[hunterw]

8v8 dsd is the new speedmetal

this thread is dumb, let people play whatever the hell they want