Balanced Annihilation V6.6

[ginekolog]

i allways try to mimic in battle situation. Battlesubs should be and are alfa and omega of sea. The have (had in test) range advandatage over gimps yet gimps are very fast and move easily next to subs and fire ad 360°arc. Subs fire only limited arc and are very hard to micro(if u run u die and dont shoot back).

The sad thing is that gimps rule allmost all sea, cost for cost. Try it yourself

What beats gimp is normal torpedo lanucher but it is static defense.

Just tried 17 gimps vs 10 T1subs , 5 gimps left after just raming into good spread subs, no micro needed. so OP. Subs just turn around insted of firing when any unit is near or under

Subs have 2 critical weakneses :
- they cant fire on near units or under them (engine bug or mod bug?)
- they can stack on one spot so they can take splah damage from gimps, while gimps cant ocupy single spot and allways fire.

BTw sub killerers are SUX against anything but other subs and TL's.

Try it yourself if you dont trust my analitic/testing skills.

[Pxtl]

I thought the idea of the "subs don't collide with other stuff" fix was to make subs not collide with non-sub units - why the hell do they stack now?

[andre]

I want to request a new LUA-Rule in the Mod-Options (especially für FFA-Games):
When a Player drops stays his Ghost-Units in the Game and most Players try to kill them first instead of killing the "real" enemies, which decelerates the game-end too much, so if these Ghosts gets destructed automatically it would decrease the wasted time a lot.

[Evil4Zerggin]

- they cant fire on near units or under them (engine bug or mod bug?)
- they can stack on one spot so they can take splah damage from gimps, while gimps cant ocupy single spot and allways fire.

1. Subs only have a 90 degree wide fire arc (i.e., 45 degrees on each side). Not sure if this applies to vertical angle though. May get back to you on that.

2. The weapon tag impactOnly. USE IT.

[TheFatController]

I want to request a new LUA-Rule in the Mod-Options (especially für FFA-Games):
When a Player drops stays his Ghost-Units in the Game and most Players try to kill them first instead of killing the "real" enemies, which decelerates the game-end too much, so if these Ghosts gets destructed automatically it would decrease the wasted time a lot.

Mod options for FFA's are a good idea

[Gota]

If someone wants to do that i suggest looking an a supcom ffa ruleset that was created by a modder i think it is called phantom mod...or something similar.
It pretty good.

[Klopper]

Not sure if someone has noticed it, but compared to earlier BA versions, Defenders/Pulverizers seem to misfire alot...
Also, since BB accuracy was buffed and its special damage to ships reduced...do we still need so high BB anti-T3 special damage?

[MR.D]

I think BB extra damage should only impact the Krogoth, Juggernaut, and Bantha.

Leave it as normal damage for the lighter mechs, or they just get slaughtered way too fast.

Mostly because BB are like Lays potato chips, you can never have just one, and lighter mechs like Karganeth/razorback, Shiva/Marauder die in 1-3 hits and take massive damage from nearby splash from BB as well.

Another problem with the Bertha is with its experience gain from hitting these high cost Mech units, with a single BB strike against a Mech the accuracy bonus to the BB goes from random to sniper almost instantly making any future land attack against the direction of the Bertha all that much harder.

T3 mechs are still pretty rare in most games, but its hardly worth it and it is still far more efficient to just spam Air and Bombers for taking out distant targets.

[ginekolog]

I agree that BB should not deal xtra damage to all mechs but only Krog and Batha. Others should not receive this beating, too easy to kill them with bbs.

[Noruas]

Play xta

[Gota]

Play SA.
Like BA but without ridicules,hidden,special damages or oped gimps.

[el_matarife]

Play SA.
Like BA but without ridicules,hidden,special damages or oped gimps.

Get out and don't come back.

[smoth]

Play SA.
Like BA but without ridicules,hidden,special damages or oped gimps.

I like that ba has ridicules is hidden damages special people and over powered all the people that are all busted ass gimped. In fact I think making gimpy people is called forcing the opponent to give them a handicap, hey those people need all they can get. Look at you walking around with all your anatomy intact.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

soz not on topic with the trolling;
are t1 kbots ever going to be improved vs t1 vehicles? lower e-costs and non-storm/rocko units being more useful etc?

[Sleksa]

soz not on topic with the trolling;
are t1 kbots ever going to be improved vs t1 vehicles? lower e-costs and non-storm/rocko units being more useful etc?

Please list reasons why
1) they are not useful vs veh atm
2) why they should be useful vs veh

and finally
3) proposals on how to fix the said ~problem~

[Gota]

Well.
Kbots are overpunished for being able to climb hills.It is not that big of an advantage.
Kbots have slow cons which means the bigger the map the worse kbots do no matter what(cause the expand slower).
Vehicles have an amphibious con.Its faster than the kbot con and can climb hills and go underwater.
Rockos and storms are better than any other kbot in general and are the easiest to play with...
(by the way if some top notch player can win with other kbots just to prove a point it doesn't mean that it wouldnt be easier for him to win with rocko/storms instead)

rockos and storms can over shoot by about 1.5 of their range so when other kbots try and go backward to avoid missiles they still hit them.
This is a hidden value of storms and rockos.
about hammers and thuds...these bots are usefull on the rare occasions that wreckage is pilled up but since wreckage gets reclaimed so fast these occasions are very rare.
See SA where wreckage takes longer to reclaim exactly for the purpose of making units that shoot with an arch more effective and have a role.

How to fix?compare to SA.

[pintle]

Otherwise unchanged AKs that don't chain explode would certainly be a major improvement imo.


Random veh advantages:

Amphib cons
Minelayer
Artillery
An amphib assault unit
Janus/leveller
The degree to which flash/gator wtfpwn pw/ak, and stumpy/raider(lol up raider) wtfpwn thud/hammer for cost

Kbot advantages:
..... Can has warrior drop?
"Teh map maed me go kbots!"
Cheap rez units (you can send the same squad of kbots to their death at the hands of some flash over and over again)

I have no expectation for this to be considered and/or acted upon.


Edit: forgot how much better veh cons are

[1v0ry_k1ng]

1) they are not useful vs veh atm
2) why they should be useful vs veh

and finally
3) proposals on how to fix the said ~problem~

I think pintle and gota summarised it pretty well minus the sa plug

vehicle lab has all the advantages pintle listed.

kbot lab has storm/rocko, hill traversal, rezbots

but suffers high e costs
ak/pw chainexplode from the times before flash etc got a speed boost when they used to be swarmed and are generally weak and slow despite the higher dps/cost
thud/hammer seems less useful than storm/rocko in most game situations.

so 3),
lower e-cost ratio to similar to that of vehicles?
remove chainsploding on ak/pw
make non storm/rocko bots more useful?
do somthing with the cons?

I mean, if you think all this is not an issue fair enough since you guys play it alot more, but people alway seem to be moaning about this

[Gota]

Still its all a simplification.
If you make attacking t1 kbot actually balanced well they will be overpowered as a whole cause they have cheaty rez bots.
fast reclaiming fast rezzing cheap hordes of walking nanos.

[[Krogoth86]]

I'd also consider finally giving Jethro/Crasher the ability to fight ground too - it's totally strange why only vehicles should be able to fire at ground too. That also was a reason why I added artillery K-Bots to MA: In BA K-Bots totally lack any kind of artillery at T1. Together with them being pretty slow they totally suck (in comparison to vehicles) at attacking defenses. While Stumpies/Flashes reach HLTs or whatever there is pretty fast K-Bots have to suffer numerous shots until they can start to fire back at all. When not including any kind of artillery there at least should be the artillery/AA-hybrid unit class available which give you high sight ranges too so your Rockos don't have to attack radar blobs just as it is with Samsons/Shellshockers (although the artillery still has the big advantage of being able to kill HLTs)...