Spring on DJL Linux Games Repository.

[SerjnDestroy]

Hey guys, I just wanted to notify you that the Spring engine can be downloaded, installed and managed using DJL, a multi-distro Linux game manager. It is quite a nifty program, I've been pushing the dev's to put a few Spring-specific features in, but communication is a bit of an issue (the devs are French), and I hold a "worlds worst coder" award somewhere, so I haven't been able to tackle the in depth stuff myself.

But anyway, here's a link http://www.djl-linux.org/index_en.php, feedback would be much appreciated, and if you find the app useful enough, a mention in the wiki would help a lot.

[SerjnDestroy]

Erm, sorry for necroing/double posting, but it was either that or make a duplicate thread.

Anyway, djl has made quite a few improvements over the last month, it can now handle plugins and dependency fixes, and all kinds of other cool things. It would be, for example, /very/ easy to make a PlanetWars plugin that allows you to play without having to open your web browser and everything.

So yeah, please guys, check it out, bug me with bugs and such, and we can really get Spring's linux part working a lot better!

[hoijui]

hello!
well.. looks interesting. if it is really easy and works well, distro independently, then it is cool
but as i have spring working here, i do not mind testing it. but you could modify the wiki page here on the spring site to include this installation method as an alternative. i am pretty sure your coder skills are sufficient for editing a wiki site
and as you may be the person that best knows how well this thing works with spring and all, you are the perfect person for this.

[SerjnDestroy]

Thanks for replying! Its been a long while in waiting, haha..

The thing is, I don't just want to go ahead and edit the wiki. If people try it and it doesn't work there would be hell to play, I'd think.
DJL does work pretty well, although it is still in development, and I'd like to get other's opinions before going ahead and forcing it on people.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if the Spring community has that many linux users or they aren't all too interested in new methods of distribution, so I'd rather wait until /all/ of djl's problems are sorted out, (automatic game updates, dependency installation, 80%+ install success rates), and then try my luck..

[koshi]

tbh I see no reason to choose a distribution method that doesn't do (DJL) automatic dependency tracking and updates over one that does (apt-get, or whatever package manager i got).

Also for Spring it's just distributing what looks like a slightly modified version of Nemoder's MojoSetup installer (w/o giving any credit afaics).

3 out of 4 random games i tried wouldn't start because of incompatible libraries (i'm on a x64 system).

[SerjnDestroy]

tbh I see no reason to choose a distribution method that doesn't do (DJL) automatic dependency tracking and updates over one that does (apt-get, or whatever package manager i got).

Also for Spring it's just distributing what looks like a slightly modified version of Nemoder's MojoSetup installer (w/o giving any credit afaics).

3 out of 4 random games i tried wouldn't start because of incompatible libraries (i'm on a x64 system).

64bit isn't really supported at the moment (the game architecture is listed on the repo page)...

Also, the thing about package managers, is that they are usually distro dependant. Apt is all fine and good, as long as you run a Debian system, but there are lots of other distro's in the linux ecosystem, who don't have easy access to games...

Furthermore, have you ever tried uninstalling stuff using the package manager? It's a nightmare.. Using djl's install method, it is easy to manage, and there is no risk of breaking anything. Djl's game folder also allows you to use your game installs across distros (at least in most cases), which is another bonus. With gigs of games, having to redownload them everytime you switch distros or pcs is quite a mission..

Yes, the installer is a rehosted version of Nemoder's installer. The repo managers should have asked for permission, but they don't speak english, so it would have been a bit of a problem.

[koshi]

64bit isn't really supported at the moment (the game architecture is listed on the repo page)...

Heh, indeed it is, didn't see that. There should be some warning at least tho.

Also, the thing about package managers, is that they are usually distro dependant.

http://www.packagekit.org/pk-intro.html

Furthermore, have you ever tried uninstalling stuff using the package manager? It's a nightmare.

Can't say i've ever had an even near nightmarish experience. Could you give an example?

Djl's game folder also allows you to use your game installs across distros (at least in most cases), which is another bonus. With gigs of games, having to redownload them everytime you switch distros or pcs is quite a mission.

I see the benefit of not re-downloading lots of stuff if you're on a limited net connection. As for sharing installs, it's not clear to me how DJL would fare in a multiuser setup. Is it guaranteed that configs are per user? Can I install games for others to be usuable, w/o them being able to install games themselves?

Yes, the installer is a rehosted version of Nemoder's installer. The repo managers should have asked for permission, but they don't speak english, so it would have been a bit of a problem.

TBH that's not much of an excuse.
Btw, there's also a 64bit Installer for spring they could rip-off.

Some sort of issue-tracking system on the website would be nice.

[SerjnDestroy]

(I keep on referring to we in this post, guess I should mention that I am not /really/ a member of the djl development team)

Package kit is only an abstraction layer for the core package manager. So you can't install debs on a rpm system or anything like that. Installing a distro independent package manager would be very risky, and a lot more work..

As for uninstallation: Orphaning dependencies, or deleting necessary ones... Backups and user files.. Quite a bit to go into. Also, situations occur where you cannot delete packages, and that is lethal if the package in question is a large game

Multiple Users: Game configs are still saved in the user folder (/.*), so pretty much. Multiple users sharing the same djl folder hasn't been tested that much, but still, the advantage of saving downloaded archives is pretty large. Djl doesn't use a user privilege system, if you have rights to write to the home directory, alls well, if you don't most games won't work.

/flameon Attribution issues: Foss: freedom of re-distribution. Djl at no point claims credit for any installer/game/utility and we link to the communities whose games we distribute. foss: right to modification of a program (not that we use a modified version of the installer anyway. It is just rehosted to cut some slack on jobjol's servers(I guess you have a problem with that too?)). (also, I don't see Nemoder attributing any of the content he distributes in his installer either, so seriously...).

End all argument: The spring version we are using is hosted and used by JeuxFrance, if anyone feels there is something wrong with it, contact them (http://www.jeuxlinux.fr/)

If anyone has a problem with spring being provided to a larger audience, then sure, let us hear it. People try to help out with the playerbase, only to be either ignored or met with suspicion :sigh: /flameoff

We don't have capacity to differentiate between 32 and 64 bit games at the moment, so that solution won't work. It is a feature that will be added in the future, once we get a working dependency system.

Issue tracking is done through the forum. If you have any suggestions/comments, please visit

[koshi]

Package kit is only an abstraction layer for the core package manager. So you can't install debs on a rpm system or anything like that. Installing a distro independent package manager would be very risky, and a lot more work..

And as that it could be very well used, i don't see where that is risky. As for it being more work, I would guess implementing a seperate dependency tracking system is a lot of work too. (as is fixing up games so they statically link / ship all they need instead of using the standard shared libs approach of linux)

As for uninstallation: Orphaning dependencies, or deleting necessary ones... Backups and user files..

No package manager i know touches user files if not told to do so and all cases of dependency screwups i've come across involved something like the user carelessly throwing "-f" into the argument list.

/flameon /flameoff

I'm not questioning motives here, but implementation. Where you get that hostility from i do not know.
Is it from stating the fact of the rip-off?

[SerjnDestroy]

That wasn't hostile. I was just stating the facts. If you didn't want to convey aggression, then I'm sorry.

PackageKit isnt going to help, unless we have rpms, debs, etc. of all on the official repo's. I doubt that that is going to happen any time soon. There are many ways to get cross distribution package managers, but the thing is, what audience will be able to use them? And who will do so without messing up their system (not irrevocably, but in minor ways)?

The thing is, people want simplicity. They don't want to go and change a barrel full of settings before being able to even start installing a game. That is what DJL is partially attempting to do, and is something that isn't available in an easily accessible format at the moment in spring's case.

Ok, user files rarely get touched by package managers, come to think of it, but the rest of my points still stay.

[Nemoder]

I certainly don't mind anyone using the installer I built, in fact it includes the scripts I wrote with it so anyone can build their own from it.

While it would be much better to have all the popular distros include games like Spring in their own repositories I can see why they aren't always able to due to copyrights and dependencies.

Either way the more people able to play Spring games the better!

[SerjnDestroy]

Thanks Nemoder, lets hope that the few hundred people that use djl give spring a go. I've suggested a statistics system to the devs to track the amount of times games are downloaded and played, but they are pretty stringent about user privacy, and at the moment the only statistics we have are from the update calls..

[clericvash]

I like the idea of this and may try it out sometime.

Although it states spring as Freeware, not exactly correct.

[SerjnDestroy]

Unfortunately the license field was added after most of the games where in the database, and it defaults to freeware.. Quite a few games suffer from incorrect labeling, and modifying the license publishes it as an update on the rss feed, so we normally wait until a new version comes out to fix the licence status..

That, and the fact that it comes with OTA content, which sort of makes it sketchy to distribute...

[zwzsg]

Then do not distribute TA content, stick with the mods free of them. (Gundam, E&E, Kernel Panic, PURE, etc...).

[SerjnDestroy]

We might, but for the moment everything seems to be fine, and changing anything would only make the game less playable.. Let sleeping dogs lie, eh?

[f33l]

Hi all,

just wanted to give some feedback on this way of installing spring on linux. I'm on openSuse 10.2, for which a spring binary is provided in some opensuse build service repositories.

However, ever since the new version of spring was release I've spent _literally_ DAYS attempting to get it to work, which mostly failed due to shared object incompatibilities and other annoyances. That was the reason why I (had to) quit playing spring.

Now this new easy and convenient way of installing spring comes along, and I get it to work after installing only 1(!) additional dependency. Wow! Big thanks to the developers and the maintainers of this project. This is not even mentioning the other linux games that are readily accessible through the tool.

Also, I like how they bundle everything needed to start playing other than the other install options that make you fuddle around for much too long before getting it to work. For instance Springlobby is there and works.

So, what can I say. openSuse users should consider this as "THE" way of installing spring and it seems like a nifty tool for linux gamers in general. I would suggest to give the developers a break, thank them dearly and add this install option to the spring wiki ASAP.

cheers,
Chris

[SerjnDestroy]

Remember though, that the credit to the installer goes to Nemoder (I'm not sure if any changes where made to it when rehosted).. Djl does make the installer easier to find and use though, and does a bit of magic on the dependency side (not a complete solution yet though, but soon :D)

[Hoi]

Make sticky, add to wiki, ect.

[dust]

i use myself ubuntu. the way with launchpad was very easy, beside of no notice about OTA.

http://www.playdeb.net/ is also very nice for me to use.