Weiner Rushing

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 28 Sep 2005, 23:11

AARRGG! Another one of these "XTA is bad, it is too easy to porc, it's not fair how attacking units can bypass my defenses" threads.

DONT PORC!

kill them before they kill you, if you porc, you will never kill them, and so they will inevitably kill you. Both players start out with a commander, so if you die it is because of your opponent using his commander better than you.

To defend a base, you need to have something covering every inch of it, and so it is easier to just build a big army and kill your opponent.

It was way easier to rush in OTA, people still havent found a cost-effective defense to flashes. In XTA defenses are what they should be: structures to protect your important buildings from light probes.

tanelorn · Post by **tanelorn** » 29 Sep 2005, 01:28

How about ppl like you stop flaming and dissing other posters and keep your posts to yourselves unless you have something constructive to add to the thread?

SinbadEV · Post by **SinbadEV** » 29 Sep 2005, 02:02

Becauser the Internet is effectively annonymous and it makes us feel like big men... n00b.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 29 Sep 2005, 07:45

tanelorn wrote:How about ppl like you stop flaming and dissing other posters and keep your posts to yourselves unless you have something constructive to add to the thread?

Um dude... lindir didn't flame you at all... Min3 did, definately, but lindir just disagreed with you and then defended his position.

XTA is a power and shift mod. Units act in paper rock scissor methods to counter certian defences and similarly certain defences are exeptionally strong against certian offencive patterns. The player who is most aware of his opponents stratigey has the greatest advantage.

Comparitively, UH pushes all players to get a wide range of forces with each respective unit nessicary to counter a certain point of your enemies counter offencives. Generic swarms of everything and effective battle micromanagement is trump in UH, where in XTA trump is whatever best plays on your opponents biggest weakness. Be it goli, kroggies, brawlies, or nukes.

I like both depending on the mood I'm in. I cerianly don't want XTA to shift toward the generic unit swarm model that UH has done so well with, because I feel that avoiding that model is precicely the flavor of XTA. XTA is a balance mod that touches on many of the trends set by starcraft style RTS balancing, where UH is totally different, and balances much more similarly to OTA.

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 29 Sep 2005, 11:21

tanelorn wrote:How about ppl like you stop flaming and dissing other posters and keep your posts to yourselves unless you have something constructive to add to the thread?

Because you polluted this tread by your existance?
Face it, you burned _SO_ much karma that it will take a very long time for anybody to take you serious again.

Ronny · Post by **Ronny** » 29 Sep 2005, 11:43

maybe Spring just needs an option like "Peace for first xx minutes", like in Rise of Nations
Then ppl can set xx minutes where units cant attack each other (or maybe only static units -llts ..- can fire)
then maybe we can avoid sitiuations like some described above

i know i react sometimes unfair to rushes but thats just because im picky

-getting confronted with me being not a good player :p- i dont really have something against it, its in the game so deal with it

with that option tho, that aspect could be removed for ppl who really really dont like that aspect

Ronny

Justin Case · Post by **Justin Case** » 29 Sep 2005, 12:06

sometimes (quite often actually) you can manage to d-gun an entire gang of lvl1 units. At the start of the game that means a lot of time and resources for the enemy, that you just destroyed with one mouseclick.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 29 Sep 2005, 12:35

and for those that complain that they run away from our commander, heard them towards your commander with whatever unit you have. Either chasde them towards your comm with a tank (most rushers run away from units, as they want to stay alive for as long as posible), or lure them towards your comm with a construction unit. If you really have to, d-gun them THROUGH your other buildings. Its better than loosing your WHOLE base to a few units.

tanelorn · Post by **tanelorn** » 30 Sep 2005, 02:57

SwiftSpear wrote:
tanelorn wrote:How about ppl like you stop flaming and dissing other posters and keep your posts to yourselves unless you have something constructive to add to the thread?
Um dude... lindir didn't flame you at all... Min3 did, definately, but lindir just disagreed with you and then defended his position..

Lindir happened to post while I was typing my post. I should have named names. Nothing against Lindir. Everything against flamers

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 30 Sep 2005, 03:53

Tanelorn wrote:Lindir happened to post while I was typing my post. I should have named names. Nothing against Lindir. Everything against flamers

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you look at the post times listed you will see that Lindir's post precedes Tanelorn's by 2 hours and 17 minutes. Maybe I'm crazy, but I see Lindir's at 1:11pm and Tanelorn's at 3:28pm.

tanelorn · Post by **tanelorn** » 30 Sep 2005, 06:34

And I see someone who thinks its more important to flame people than to have a good discussion and help SY improve the game.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 30 Sep 2005, 15:48

*covers tanelorn with peroleum and lights him*

You can't hate me if you're dead

maverick256 · Post by **maverick256** » 01 Oct 2005, 19:28

[flame]
Call it the tyranny of the majority, but I think the poll just owned any anti-rushing-self-righteous-whiners in here. But of course, being the self-righteous wonderful people they are, they probably are too above the plane of self-change anyways.
And why do I not hear the rest of the population complaining about rushing? Oh who knows, maybe something is wrong with everyone else.
[/flame]

Now on to the more useful part of this post....
It's pretty easy to turn enemy rushing to your advantage. once you kill their units, you get free metal (assuming you don't d-gun. It's pretty non-wise to use against a small rushing force anyways). And free metal is always good stuff, especially on a low metal map, not to mention at the beginning of the game.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 01 Oct 2005, 22:25

I think tanelorn messed up his page formatting before he posted that

OMG ROLLEYES! I'M SUCH A JACKASS

[edit] maveric, in XTA the time you spend reclaiming weiner units would be much better spent running off somewhere to drop a mex. Unit corpses in XTA don't reclaim for nearly enough of thier total value to be worth wasting reclaimer time on them.

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 01 Oct 2005, 22:46

hmmmm

Effective Porkers don't actually merely defend defend defend. Its just their primary units are defences, and they slowly advance their front lines..... (A valid OTA campaign trick, at that :D)

So even porkers can win, just they have to be good.

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 02 Oct 2005, 02:22

Well, I don't really call that porcing, I call that attacking with defensive units. It's like in starcraft* when protoss could just build defense all over the map and win. They aren't being defensive, they are agressively taking over the map with stationary units.

*OMG! I mentioned starcraft! I must be crazy!

mikedep333 · Post by **mikedep333** » 02 Oct 2005, 04:51

I disapprove of all rushing.
This is a STRATEGY game, not a game of one or two quick tactics. A strategy consits of numerous tactical decisions, not one decision to attack your opponent as quickly as possible. You should win or lose a game based on how overall good of a player you are, not whether you made one quick decision to rush or failed to make one quick decision to have enough defenses early on.

When this game is popular enough online, I will host/find no rush games. In the meantime I can only really play it with my friends that agree with me.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 02 Oct 2005, 05:07

I dont know what you define strategy as, but for me "making decisions" preety much sums it up.

If you have a problem wiht rushing, it's probably because you didnt take the time to build a mt, or an llt, or a few peewees or what have you.

tanelorn · Post by **tanelorn** » 02 Oct 2005, 08:16

mikedep333 wrote:I disapprove of all rushing.
This is a STRATEGY game, not a game of one or two quick tactics. A strategy consits of numerous tactical decisions, not one decision to attack your opponent as quickly as possible. You should win or lose a game based on how overall good of a player you are, not whether you made one quick decision to rush or failed to make one quick decision to have enough defenses early on.

When this game is popular enough online, I will host/find no rush games. In the meantime I can only really play it with my friends that agree with me.

In TA, your version of strategy means "whoever makes more metal and energy wins".

In games like starcraft and C&C, you have limited resources and it you take forever or build too much, you lose. TA should never be about how many resources you have and how much you are porcing. It should be about battles and base assaults.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 02 Oct 2005, 09:20

The cause of all the BS and easy tactics is from the alterations from OTA, and its good balence system between Core and ARM.

OTA made ARM and CORE equals through diversity, and it worked because Cavedog knew wtf they were doing, and once they had everything where they wanted it, THEY LEFT IT ALONE.

In Ota, Jeffies could not compete vs light tanks, brawlers were not invincable, Penetrators/Doomsdays were not constant beam weapons but a built up burst PUNCH weapon, heavy Kbots were not Blitzkreig high speed units, and Immolators were not long range artillery, and these are just a few of the poor decisions.

Everything was balenced and even, Spring should have been exactly like OTA from the start, and XTA should have been a mod and not the basis for all of TAspring's balences as the released project.

Spring RTS Engine

Weiner Rushing

Is weiner rushing ok?

the solution?