Balanced Annihilation V6.5

[Yatta]

afaik the radar dot targeting problem is that the dot you see is the "radar estimation" (inaccurate) but the click as to be made where the unit actually is on the map.

[very_bad_soldier]

afaik the radar dot targeting problem is that the dot you see is the "radar estimation" (inaccurate) but the click as to be made where the unit actually is on the map.

So you can figure out the units actual position by moving the mouse around a bit?

[el_matarife]

Noize, you might want to do some testing on Impulse factors for the units that use them.

Not sure if the new momentum ect additions for the new spring version is the cause or what, but Push force from impulse weapons seem to be magnified alot now.

Doesn't seem to be that way on everything. I've only really noticed this bug in BA Chicken where levelers send the smaller chickens all over the map but barely touch the bigger ones. I'll have to test this later today to get a good feel for the issue, I'll report back with results.

[Gota]

Noize, you might want to do some testing on Impulse factors for the units that use them.

Not sure if the new momentum ect additions for the new spring version is the cause or what, but Push force from impulse weapons seem to be magnified alot now.

Another issue which might not be Mod specific, is how attacking and selecting a radar dot seems really off, trying to select specific targets to attack is very hard to do.

I end up hunting forever to get an attack command locked onto the dot, like its showing the dot as being a certain place, but the selectable target is somewhere else completely.

yep its a problem,until its fixed though u can use area attack.
Just a temp solution..

[blublub]

i wanted to add a little request what i'm missing in this mod

first would be option to disable sharing (units and resources) that would help team games especially in tournament team games or ladder team games
note that you still could share the resources by supporting your allies with your construction vehicles (guarding factory or helping building stuff, and the only way to give a unit would be a capture by com from an ally unit)
i'm not sure if anyone every implemented that and how to do it maybe a widget built in a mod of some kind

another option would be to start with construction vehicles instead of a commy it may be same as in CA that is morphing a com at start to chosen type of cons

All who are in favor say AYE!

[sillynanny]

first would be option to disable sharing (units and resources) that would help team games especially in tournament team games or ladder team games
note that you still could share the resources by supporting your allies with your construction vehicles (guarding factory or helping building stuff, and the only way to give a unit would be a capture by com from an ally unit)

(...)

All who are in favor say AYE!

WHAT?

[smoth]

/me summons sleksa

[blublub]

first would be option to disable sharing (units and resources) that would help team games especially in tournament team games or ladder team games
note that you still could share the resources by supporting your allies with your construction vehicles (guarding factory or helping building stuff, and the only way to give a unit would be a capture by com from an ally unit)

(...)

All who are in favor say AYE!

WHAT?

just an option in game modes to disable sharing

[Neddie]

As long as it is off by default and clearly broadcasted at game start. I would never play with it, but that shouldn't stop others. I would never play a "classic" DSD Steam match either.

[DavetheBrave]

Due to the new spring version, Balance is currently borked

lvl 1 anti air missiles miss a lot more now. recently, I played a game where i was comm bombed when i had defenders in front of my comm. In the same game, a few bombers raped steve's and my base, even though we had anti air. It looks like this has a relatively easy fix:

[10:07:08 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> do you know what the reasoning behind the change to anti air in the engine was, and if there is a tag or something to fix it?
[10:07:28 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> what change?
[10:07:37 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> all i know is that defenders miss a ton
[10:07:40 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> I know the default flighttime is different... not much else
[10:07:42 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> and ba hasnt changed
[10:07:47 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> that's probably it
[10:08:05 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> default flighttime?
[10:08:08 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> might be hitsphere behavior changes
[10:08:20 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> how long the missile's engine lasts
[10:08:27 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> ahhh
[10:08:30 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> thats prob it
[10:08:46 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> can that be changed in the mod?
[10:08:52 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> yes
[10:08:56 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> it's part of the weapondef
[10:09:01 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> kk
[10:09:14 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> and if they're tunnelling through hitspheres then they can be set to raytracing collision mode

But more importantly...Gator>>>>flash now for some reason, making core really the only option in most 1v1 games. Flop did a couple tests, with .76 and .77, and found that in .76 Flash beat gator(1v1) barely in 1v1, where in .77 gatorz won by a significant margin.

[Evil4Zerggin]

To fix flightTimes, do something like this (CA's flightTime fix algorithm):

Code: Select all

local doPreviewOnly = true

local echoColor = "Black"

local groundTargetV = 100
local airTargetV = 300

for unit, weapon, weaponDef in IteratorWeapons() do
  if weaponDef.weaponType == "MissileLauncher" then
    local echoFront = "Unit " .. ToString(unit.unitname) .. " weapon " .. ToString(weaponDef.name)
    
    local targetV = groundTargetV
    if (string.find(weapon.onlyTargetCategory or "", "VTOL")) then
      targetV = airTargetV
    end
    
    local v0 = weaponDef.startVelocity or 0.01
    local v1 = weaponDef.weaponVelocity or v0
    local deltav = v1 - v0
    local a = weaponDef.weaponAcceleration
    if (a == 0) then
      deltav = 0
      a = 1
    end
    local range = weaponDef.range or 10
    
    local t = math.ceil((range + 0.5 * deltav * deltav / a) / math.max(v1 - targetV, 0.01)) + 1
    
    SetTableValue(weaponDef, "flightTime", t, doPreviewOnly, echoFront, echoColor)
    
  end
end

You probably won't be able to run the code above directly, but the general ideas are there.

As to what changed: The old flightTime was weaponRange / weaponVelocity + 25 (everything in frames). However, in 0.77 only selfExplode weapons get the + 25 frames; thus any missile weapon with startVelocity below weaponVelocity has its engine cut out before reaching maximum range. You can override this by specifying an explicit flightTime (as above). In fact it might improve performance (by a very small amount) because for some reason the engine recalculates the default flightTime every time the weapon is fired unless you provide an explicit one.

[REVENGE]

Due to the new spring version, Balance is currently borked

lvl 1 anti air missiles miss a lot more now. recently, I played a game where i was comm bombed when i had defenders in front of my comm. In the same game, a few bombers raped steve's and my base, even though we had anti air. It looks like this has a relatively easy fix:

[10:07:08 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> do you know what the reasoning behind the change to anti air in the engine was, and if there is a tag or something to fix it?
[10:07:28 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> what change?
[10:07:37 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> all i know is that defenders miss a ton
[10:07:40 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> I know the default flighttime is different... not much else
[10:07:42 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> and ba hasnt changed
[10:07:47 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> that's probably it
[10:08:05 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> default flighttime?
[10:08:08 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> might be hitsphere behavior changes
[10:08:20 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> how long the missile's engine lasts
[10:08:27 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> ahhh
[10:08:30 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> thats prob it
[10:08:46 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> can that be changed in the mod?
[10:08:52 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> yes
[10:08:56 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> it's part of the weapondef
[10:09:01 PM] <[XHC]DavetheBrave> kk
[10:09:14 PM] <[SmuG]lurker> and if they're tunnelling through hitspheres then they can be set to raytracing collision mode

But more importantly...Gator>>>>flash now for some reason, making core really the only option in most 1v1 games. Flop did a couple tests, with .76 and .77, and found that in .76 Flash beat gator(1v1) barely in 1v1, where in .77 gatorz won by a significant margin.

I gave Flash a significant buff in agility in 6.5+3, but didn't actually increase its max velocity or change its weapon range. You should try playing a few games of Arm vs. Core on Comet Catcher to test for balance. As for defenders, I've noticed that problem as well. Might push out a fix for it in 6.5+4.

[REVENGE]

To fix flightTimes, do something like this (CA's flightTime fix algorithm):

Code: Select all

local doPreviewOnly = true

local echoColor = "Black"

local groundTargetV = 100
local airTargetV = 300

for unit, weapon, weaponDef in IteratorWeapons() do
  if weaponDef.weaponType == "MissileLauncher" then
    local echoFront = "Unit " .. ToString(unit.unitname) .. " weapon " .. ToString(weaponDef.name)
    
    local targetV = groundTargetV
    if (string.find(weapon.onlyTargetCategory or "", "VTOL")) then
      targetV = airTargetV
    end
    
    local v0 = weaponDef.startVelocity or 0.01
    local v1 = weaponDef.weaponVelocity or v0
    local deltav = v1 - v0
    local a = weaponDef.weaponAcceleration
    if (a == 0) then
      deltav = 0
      a = 1
    end
    local range = weaponDef.range or 10
    
    local t = math.ceil((range + 0.5 * deltav * deltav / a) / math.max(v1 - targetV, 0.01)) + 1
    
    SetTableValue(weaponDef, "flightTime", t, doPreviewOnly, echoFront, echoColor)
    
  end
end

You probably won't be able to run the code above directly, but the general ideas are there.

As to what changed: The old flightTime was weaponRange / weaponVelocity + 25 (everything in frames). However, in 0.77 only selfExplode weapons get the + 25 frames; thus any missile weapon with startVelocity below weaponVelocity has its engine cut out before reaching maximum range. You can override this by specifying an explicit flightTime (as above). In fact it might improve performance (by a very small amount) because for some reason the engine recalculates the default flightTime every time the weapon is fired unless you provide an explicit one.

Holy shit, more importantly, so I can use SetTableValue to edit defs without having to do .cheat??? Is this for weapon defs only, or can I do it for all def tables?

[Evil4Zerggin]

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a SpringModEdit thing. It's not in the engine. Although you can use SpringModEdit to mass-edit any mod that uses Lua unit files.

Also apparently this widget can convert .fbis to Lua. Not sure if it's compatible with the current version.

[REVENGE]

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a SpringModEdit thing. It's not in the engine. Although you can use SpringModEdit to mass-edit any mod that uses Lua unit files.

Also apparently this widget can convert .fbis to Lua. Not sure if it's compatible with the current version.

... DAMMIT!

[DavetheBrave]

there also a bit of an issue with liches. For some reason, they nuke any unit that is in their path when you order them to attack something. It kinda sucks when they blow up a mex instead of the comm ^^

[NOiZE]

For All the hotfixers....

Dont use Balanced Annihilation as the name for your mod!

Thats just rude....

As soon as i have time i will release a fix, if needed.

EDIT: or maybe day will /EDIT

Just post here in the thread what is wrong and i will take a look, but dont be rude.... Im in the middle of moving, so please some patient...

[MR.D]

Liche needs to be forced to holdfire, just like you have setup with the other bombers Noize, then it will function uniformly and also behave more balanced when it is killed.

Liche is a damn expensive unit, and when you pick a target to go after, and say a flea runs in its path, the Missie is wasted and the target you wanted to go after can laugh as it goes about its business.

I guess its also a way to keep it from firing if it has been knocked down, because it will keep shooting after it is shot down (which should not happen imo), its death explosion is enough.

[el_matarife]

Might not be such a bad idea to make the Liche immune to its own bombs. I once noticed that my Liches were basically killing themselves bombing a chicken queen. I'm not sure if their missiles were hitting each other, or if the AOE on the explosion was enough to damage them, but they were doing way more damage to each other than the AA was doing to them.

[TheFatController]

That's cause one bomb lands then the liche continues to dive a little then another bomb lands and hurts the first liche, I think that's acceptable if you're spamming them in the first place but w/e