I'm still not sure where to put suggestions, I don't want to trouble serious code disscussion in Developpment, but General Discussion doesn't seem right either. Anyway.
So, it's a shame, but many people (including me, oops) don't read the /docs/readme.html. And the longer the readme is the fewer people will read it entirely. People just want to play the game, immediatly, and as soon something doesn't go as they want, instead of looking for help in the documentation they'll come posting in the Spring Forum, slowly but steadily cluttering the board with endless repeat of "Camera is too hard to control", "add a LOS visualisation" and such. I think what could greatly help would be to have the manual dispensed bits by bits, ingame. Of course, the Swedish Yankspankers don't have the time to create a "training course level" script, complete with instructor voice and all. Instead I'll propose something simpler yet effective.
Have the game reads a text file of the spring folder, (helpbits.txt for instance), then display one line of it every 5 seconds. You'd show them in the same blue window as player chat and error warnings. (Unless you really want to add a new text emplacement somewhere on the H.U.D.). It would be like an help bot regularly saying things like:
"Press ctrl + middle mouse button to change camera mode between FPS style, TA style, and Total War Style"
"Press L to toggle the sight, radar, and jammer range display"
That helpbot would be toggleable with some key or some key combination, but would be ON by default.
That way, everyone playing for the first time would have no choice but be forced to read a few pointers about how to handle the game. Of course, that doesn't replace having a fat reference manual in HTML stored in /docs/ for every issue a bit more complex, but it sounds to me like a simple to program yet very effective way to teach the basis of interface control and gameplay to newcomers.
If you want, I even agree to write the helpbits.txt. Just tell the character limit per help tip, and if it needs any formatting.
Automatic Tips Dispenser
Moderator: Moderators
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I myself am not a big fan of tooltips, or the stupid tutorials you get in most new games. I think the argument about not reading the text file is not valid. I think ppl should be prepared to put in some effort into learning a new game and not the programmers should program their software so ppl who are too lazy to read a textfile will learn it anyway. But I've seen it happen with the demo recorder where a lot of ppl didn't read the readme and didn't use the program to it's full potential. And reading a single textfile surely isn't that much of a strain. Even if we have tooltips I'd like an option to turn em off.
Obviously the tooltips would be offeable!
If you don't want tooltips and have read the manual, then as soon as the game start you'd disable them forever.
Only people who don't have read the manual would be forced to read them until they read them enough to get the tip "Press .... to disable tips such as this one".
I agree that tutorials and tips of the day are an annoyance. That is exactly why I propose a non-intrusive way of slowly dispensing tips ingame.
Maybe for a game that people have bought 50$ they will go read the manual after a while even if the first experience is unpleasant. But for a game, like Spring, very unknown and released freely over the internet, people (I know I do like that, and so I think others too) doesn't want to spend hours reading a manual before playing for the first time. They want to jump ingame as quick as possible, to check if it runs well and if they like it, and only if they really think the game enjoyment is worth it then'll go read the game manual.
Spring has already lost some players who played once and thought that the camera was unmanageable. If they had been shown a tool tip reading "Press ctrl + middle mouse button to change camera mode", they would have stayed. You can't just stay "they're too lazy to read the manual, so they're not worth playing Spring and are not big loss" because it's not true. Even amongst the people that are genuily interested in Spring, I think the majority weren't aware of the way to change camera mode the very first time they ran spring. And it's not laziness, but time constraint, over-abundance of games, etc... that makes people skip reading the readme before running spring.exe for the first time. If the tool tips are well made, then they'll be able to realize Spring greatness in their very first game, and so stay. If the tool tips aren't there, they'll be blocked by their own ignorance (like for camera), or will miss most of the features (like creating complex path and naming group for the units coming out of a not yet built factory), be disappointed and won't recheck the game after.
There is simply too much things to control to be able to create a perfectly intuitive interface for spring. And spring has many innovative features, or at least features that were only used in TA and not any mainstream RTS. So there do are things people can't guess.
If you don't want tooltips and have read the manual, then as soon as the game start you'd disable them forever.
Only people who don't have read the manual would be forced to read them until they read them enough to get the tip "Press .... to disable tips such as this one".
I agree that tutorials and tips of the day are an annoyance. That is exactly why I propose a non-intrusive way of slowly dispensing tips ingame.
Maybe for a game that people have bought 50$ they will go read the manual after a while even if the first experience is unpleasant. But for a game, like Spring, very unknown and released freely over the internet, people (I know I do like that, and so I think others too) doesn't want to spend hours reading a manual before playing for the first time. They want to jump ingame as quick as possible, to check if it runs well and if they like it, and only if they really think the game enjoyment is worth it then'll go read the game manual.
Spring has already lost some players who played once and thought that the camera was unmanageable. If they had been shown a tool tip reading "Press ctrl + middle mouse button to change camera mode", they would have stayed. You can't just stay "they're too lazy to read the manual, so they're not worth playing Spring and are not big loss" because it's not true. Even amongst the people that are genuily interested in Spring, I think the majority weren't aware of the way to change camera mode the very first time they ran spring. And it's not laziness, but time constraint, over-abundance of games, etc... that makes people skip reading the readme before running spring.exe for the first time. If the tool tips are well made, then they'll be able to realize Spring greatness in their very first game, and so stay. If the tool tips aren't there, they'll be blocked by their own ignorance (like for camera), or will miss most of the features (like creating complex path and naming group for the units coming out of a not yet built factory), be disappointed and won't recheck the game after.
There is simply too much things to control to be able to create a perfectly intuitive interface for spring. And spring has many innovative features, or at least features that were only used in TA and not any mainstream RTS. So there do are things people can't guess.
Tips in the chat log would be fine if you could acctually scroll through it... that's something that drives me crazy...
Tips are annoying but the basics like the camera settings would deffinitely be helpful...
And when you get bored of tips you can replace the file with one of the lists of quotes or jokes you get online... I mean, I program my commander work a bunch at the start and have like 5 minutes waiting until I can get my first con unit... that can get boring... ALSO tips should be able to be turned off and on in game, some hot-key or something...
Tips are annoying but the basics like the camera settings would deffinitely be helpful...
And when you get bored of tips you can replace the file with one of the lists of quotes or jokes you get online... I mean, I program my commander work a bunch at the start and have like 5 minutes waiting until I can get my first con unit... that can get boring... ALSO tips should be able to be turned off and on in game, some hot-key or something...
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
I find Redfish and FizzWizzes views on "Tooltips and Tutorials" baffling. Tutorials arent lazyness, anymore going to school is! Its to learn how to play a game, and if there ISENT a tutorial in a game that needs it, then the game suddenly becomes a lot harder. Tips of the day though, are annoying. But tooltips (as in you mouse over a button and a little pop up saying "X dose Y") is increadbly usefull
