Default Mod syndrome harming spring

[Hoi]

It makes the non ta games more visable, people will notice it right away when there is a non ta game.

[El Capitano]

ffs if you want to get some visibility for your game, go put up an autohost. Get a group of friends and play. A lot. Visibly, in public games in the main lobby. You'll need to do that anyway to ensure your game is balanced. Talk about your game, mention things about it. Don't sit around going "oh noes, teh BA dominence is keeping da black man down!"

Guess what'll happen if you create your own custom client with pre-installed filters? People will download the game, join the lobby and see no games and no players. Why? Because you won't get a huge number of downloads to start with and guess what happens when people join an empty (or nearly empty) lobby? They quit bloody quickly.

If the whole "non-*A server" idea ever gets off the ground, you'll end up with a segregated community and you'll have to try even harder to attract players. People will join the lobby server and see maybe 6-7 people there instead of the 200+ in the current lobby, all trying to play different games. People will say "sod this, back to BA", log out and you'll likely not see them again. With everybody in the same lobby server, those 200 people will at least possibly see the EVO/EE/GOATSE/whatever game in the lobby and they might, just might, be interested enough to check it out. People do that with CA and now Springie regularly has 5-10 specs, many of which are people who have barely seen CA before.

FFS, the "*A" folks have now given you Spring Downloader, which allows easy auto-downloading of maps and mods along with automatic updates and you *still* disparage their mods and sit around crying about BA instead of actually doing something about it. The sense of entitlement is astounding.

[AF]

ffs if you want to get some visibility for your game, go put up an autohost. Get a group of friends and play. A lot. Visibly, in public games in the main lobby. You'll need to do that anyway to ensure your game is balanced. Talk about your game, mention things about it. Don't sit around going "oh noes, teh BA dominence is keeping da black man down!"

This has been done already. Notable attempts where the EE games and the attempts to do this with EE and things such as [EESF]. It didn't gain enough traction to allow a self perpetuating community and required an inordinate amount fo effort from those active in the EE community already. The effort was doomed to fail once they stopped, and there were issues with time zones.

Many of the people involved also have projects of their own now. They cant all do it.

Guess what'll happen if you create your own custom client with pre-installed filters? People will download the game, join the lobby and see no games and no players. Why? Because you won't get a huge number of downloads to start with and guess what happens when people join an empty (or nearly empty) lobby? They quit bloody quickly.

This point has been made before to which I routed it with this simple problem:

Where did the existing lobby game momentum come from?

Remember the current lobby systemw as once empty yet they did not suffer this problem despite rival lobby systems for TA based games such as pheonixworx or MSN Zone

If the whole "non-*A server" idea ever gets off the ground, you'll end up with a segregated community and you'll have to try even harder to attract players. People will join the lobby server and see maybe 6-7 people there instead of the 200+ in the current lobby, all trying to play different games. People will say "sod this, back to BA", log out and you'll likely not see them again. With everybody in the same lobby server, those 200 people will at least possibly see the EVO/EE/GOATSE/whatever game in the lobby and they might, just might, be interested enough to check it out. People do that with CA and now Springie regularly has 5-10 specs, many of which are people who have barely seen CA before.

Same point again, however the segregated community point is utterly flawed. We already have that scenario yet smoths forums, my website, the CA website, spring1944/IW etc etc they have not segregated the main community at all.

FFS, the "*A" folks have now given you Spring Downloader, which allows easy auto-downloading of maps and mods along with automatic updates and you *still* disparage their mods and sit around crying about BA instead of actually doing something about it. The sense of entitlement is astounding.

Licho not the *A folks. And what did he originally make it for? A game whose goals include becoming non *A. This seems like a garbage point.

Remember that the non *A content developers have their own solutions. For example lurker and forebodings EvoRTS installer and patcher.

hmm perhaps I should take my own advice and quit this thread while Im ahead

[FrOzEnTaCo]

many ppl play ba when they want a simple game. also most of the ppl in spring doesent have for a computer.












in fact, most of the ppl in spring have instead

[smoth]

I was playing spring at <20fps so most of the other projects run just as fast as ba.

[Forboding Angel]

Usually better. Default explosions eat fps.

[KDR_11k]

many ppl play ba when they want a simple game.

Simple???

[NOiZE]

yeah, just spam flash

[Wolf-In-Exile]

in fact, most of the ppl in spring have instead

.... a bag of PRON?

[FrOzEnTaCo]

in fact, most of the ppl in spring have instead

.... a bag of PRON?

i saw teh PRON but it was teh only pic of a comp and moniter on teh toliet so i had to maik teh sacrafice and post it

[manored]

Ba is not in any manner simple, are you sure that you dont mean "Then they arent in the mood to do the brain activity necessary to learn things" ? :)

[smoth]

I'd just ignore it and play anyway, Drone.

SHUT UP I WAS HAPPY TO READ HIS POST!

[SwiftSpear]

EESF died out when fang semiquit making EE. The major reason EE development stopped was one of the spring patches made spring not run on his machine any more.

[pintle]

I would be WAY more inclined to play EvoRTS if Forb wasn't so aggressive towards the player base. The hostility just turns me right off straight away: why bother trying out a game that seems (form the vids i've seen, like just another reskin of essentially the same game mechanic with a few things changed (fire thru friendlies etc).

If I actually ever saw him hosting a game i may join, but i will be damned if im expected to host it with my crappy hole punching, then wait an hour for someone to join and realise they cannot connect to me.

I log in and often immediately start getting pms to join a game with people i know, in a game that i know has depth and is well balanced. To attract me away from that you damn well better have some USP or aspects of play that appeal to me, SWIW, EE, KP, CA, S44, Gundam, Comshooter, WarEvo, have all at various times succeeded in doing this, for varying lengths of time, often directly related to if i see a game up before falling into a night of XTA. I may end up sticking around and playing more of the mod (SWIW and CA for eg) if i find myself enjoying the core, barebones, gameplay once all the fluff and gfx have been ignored. (that said if i just pulled my finger out and sorted my s44 svn i would pick it up again, just too easy to stick to 1 click gaming i guess )

BAAAAWING at us being *A fanbois cos we dont play your mod has the direct opposite effect. Host regularly, spam #main with your mod's USPs, and be more friendly to your player base, or expect nothing but contempt and mockery.

Some of us contribute nothing other than our time as players, and maybe a little bit of advertising here and there. Dismiss us all you like, but without us you are a bunch of people on the net having a big circle jerk over a bunch of unused code.

Also @ smoth: Spring has a competitive community. Its not SC grade, but the vast majority of us exercise sportsmanship and dont really feel the need for cheating/lua haxxx as that completely undermines the attraction of playing a real 1v1/clan match in the first place. You can map hack very fucking easily in WC3, and that still has an active competitive community. The scud storm bug didnt stop competitive play in Generals. I dunno about the others, but i play competitive games for the competition/gauranteed GG, not for the "OMFG I WIN!!!11!"

[KDR_11k]

USP?

[Gota]

Pintle,you might be playing fair but that doesnt mean others will.
If people are hacking and cheating that doesnt mean people will stop playing competetivly...they jsut live with the hackers and cheaters.
I do support you and think that competetive play is good and important even in Spring which is open source.

[Pxtl]

Pintle,you might be playing fair but that doesnt mean others will.
If people are hacking and cheating that doesnt mean people will stop playing competetivly...they jsut live with the hackers and cheaters.
I do support you and think that competetive play is good and important even in Spring which is open source.

The problem is that in most OSS games, including spring, cheating is trivial. It would be trivial to re-build spring.exe such that you can see like a Spectator, for example.

[Forboding Angel]

why bother trying out a game that seems (form the vids i've seen, like just another reskin of essentially the same game mechanic with a few things changed (fire thru friendlies etc).

It is very different than any other RTS in spring. Those vids are mostly from alphas and whatnot (over a year ago).

[pintle]

USP: unique selling point.

@forb: read your pm

Re: cheating, we are a small community, anyone outed as a cheater would most likely sharp find themselves having a hard time finding opponents. Tbfh, its a _game_ if they feel the need to cheat cos they need to win that bad, let them, I have nothing to proove.

Replays can reveal a surprising amount about someones map hacking/ getting messages from spectators. Its obviously still possible to cheat, but really how far do you want to take "competitive" play? We aint playing for cash or girls are we? I reiterate that, in my experience, most people competing are playing for the feeling of accomplishment/game itself, cheating is anathema to anyone truly competitive.

...that and 90% of the player base couldnt beat andy or day even with map hax.

[Forboding Angel]

...that and 90% of the player base couldnt beat andy or day even with map hax.

True. I played Day in Evo, and over the course of several hours "Almost" beat him (he murdered me the first game cause I played easy... I didn't think he would pick the game up and have it down within 2 minutes of starting it... silly me).

It was a crowning achievement. I had him on the ropes for the most part, but I started getting mentally fatigued and started making small but important mistakes. Of course he exploited this in every way imaginable and ended up handing my ass to me on a silver platter. God it was fun though.