I need help so we can have help.

[PauloMorfeo]

The game is badly needing some «help» system. Since i may end up not doing it at all or take too long for such a badly needed task, i'l place here all my planing on the task and, hopefully, someone will improve the planning and/or eventually do it.

1- I think it should be in HTML. Everyone that's using the game is doing so on a PC and, most certainly, has a browser. It can have nice images to show what we mean. Also, it could easily be placed online on the Spring site as well. Also, there are alot of editors of HTML. Even Openoffice.org can do it.

2- I think that there should be 2 helps. The «Newbie guide to TA-Spring» and the more general «help».
The «Newbie guide to TA-Spring» would be meant to the more unpatient and to make you know the very basics. How to get maps, how to join games, that we should build metal extractors and not metal makers, the queuing shift system, etc.
The more general «help» would have more complete info about all the details of TA, like making squares of buildings, guarding and patrol, etc, but still not too detailed because it would make it too big, too boring, prone to errors or outdativenes due to changes in the game.

3- Maybe, also, a 3rd part of the help system with basics strategies and tactics. Like teaching the players that there is no point in trying to play Simcity in Spring. How the basics of expansions work, etc.

When a nice help system is made, it can start beeing shiped with next versions of Spring and help the people new to Spring.

Next, i'll discuss what infos should be in the «help».

[PauloMorfeo]

To the more general «help», i've been thinking about having the infos:

Resources:
- Description of the bars.
- Income. (most game are not based on per second income)
- The 2 resources that exist: Metal and Energy
- Talk about the Metal Extractors (mexxes) and metal makers, as well as the moho versions
- The several ways of gathering energy
- The F4
- Geothermals

Generical:
(I can't seem to fit them into any category...)
Radar, terrain blocking it and radar blips
The technology tree
Choose starting positions (how-to)/Fixed Random
Repeat orders
Patrol (builders, fighting units, etc)
Guard
F1
Terrain deformability
Shift and queueing
Units not spending resources for beeing queued like in most games (this is soooo stupid! Long live TA)
The several camera views available
Some units have On/Off capabilities
Area comands

Shift:
When building buildings
Giving construction orders to factories
Giving orders (rally point) to factories
+Ctrl, +Alt, +Ctrl+Alt
Undoing shifted (queueud comands)

Comandante:
Capturing
Building (the only one we have at start)
Invisibility
D-Gun

Building:
Build Time
Build info shown at bottom right
Repairing
Restore
Helping others and factories

Combat:
The several categories of units: k-bots, vehic....
The levels, 1, 2, 3 and 10 (included in the tech tree description?)
The several types of weapons (plasma, cannons, rockets, laser, etc)
Maneuver/Hold Position/Roam
Fire at will/etc

Lobby:
How to get to where we can get more maps and more mods
Diference between Team and Ally
... all the stuff

in game chat:
a:/s:
.Cheat .nocost .etc
.team

Sharing:
H
Resource bars

Links to::
TA-spring-clan sy
spring-sourceforge
fileuniverse?

How the reader can help?
Translate the help
Go to the forums?
Go to the sourceforge spring site?

Feel free to propose aditions or category changes. That should be completed before the actual help is made to make it easier.

[PauloMorfeo]

In the basic strategies and tactics:

basic strategies and tactics:
Know the basics of how Spring works
Know the basics of all units in TA (try at least once one of each)
If the player plays simcity, it will eventually loose
Build a factory reazonably soon
Conquer enough land or otherwise be stuck
Possibly rushing
Raiding and defending
Evolve
Possibly going long range artilery or balistic missiles
More Raids and more defense
More evolution

[Cheery]

Yeah, put a complete HTML parser inside your program and be prepared for even longer loading times... :) I don't like the idea, especially it would propably giving me more those damn ugly & stupid game server advertises, like ones in CS and Battlefield 2.

I think there should be two versions. One framed html and in-game-help which uses some tree structure compiled from html/xml markup which would be used instead in the game. It would contain only paragraphs and pictures alongside the paragraphs.
So only tags <p> and <img> would be really necessary. Also you could put some special tags like: <section>, <gategory> and <name>

Or then you should force TA to work in resizable window which allows you to do all kind of else things while playing it...

But if you just like to make a common documentation, go ahead. I think you guys should put them online too. I never read offline documents unles I'm just downloaded it.

[Maelstrom]

Well most of the information is already in the wiki, its just not organised in a helpfull way. Ill be happy to lend my HTML skills in the write up bit, but dont expect me to help the actuall writing of the help. If I helped write it, then the newbies wold strt playing as badly as i do. And thats a BAD thing.

[AF]

hmmm zwzsg hasnt posted a link to his tips dispenser thread yet.

[SinbadEV]

http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Using_Spring

I had started trying to compile all this information in the wiki... might as well start there cause it's easy... we can HTMLify everything once we HAVE all the information in one place... meanwhile we could also start collecting screenshots and diagrams to explain what your talking about...

[PauloMorfeo]

Yeah, put a complete HTML parser inside your program and be prepared for even longer loading times... :) I don't like the idea, especially it would propably giving me more those damn ugly & stupid game server advertises, like ones in CS and Battlefield 2.

...

What? No...
Just some HTML pages that go along with Spring and have a description of how to play the game.

Well most of the information is already in the wiki, its just not organised in a helpfull way. ...

Not only that, it is not accessible to most people. If a person does not know it is there and needs to know it to access it, then it is not accessible. Currently the only ones that know about it are us, the forum users which don't really need it, anyway.

... we can HTMLify everything once we HAVE all the information in one place...

I must confess i haven't checked out the wiki (last time i saw the section dedicated to learning how to play the game was a long time ago) to see how complete it was and it looks nice and already much of what i was aiming for.
"HTMLify"ing it is normaly the proper way to ship it with the game. And the game really needs to provide users with access to a help system.

I'm thinking that, if we can include some nice images on the wiki, they could make the game install a link to the help/geting-started section. It already has a link to the home page but it has no indication of how to get to the geting-started section or that it even exists.
That way, it would provide a centralized place for help that, when updated, would do so to everyone but, on the other hand, would need Internet access.

[deadram]

Yah, if you want people to "learn how to play TA" we're gonah need to make a single player game. Forget AI, just something that has say 5 enemy peewees (set to patrol in the "senario file"), and you have to build 2 power plants, 3 metal extractors, a klab, and 10 peewees. I meen once AI is working, sure, but a simple senario script file shouldn't be hard to make, and I believe a parser for it almost exists in other parts of the code. If I get CVS working... I'll see what I can do, but no promisses. Last time I started to do stuff, I reliezed SJ is the spawn of the devil, and SY likes to make spagetti code :P Needless to say, I have no life, so yah...

And if you can, go help with that wiki, I think it's comming along great, but almost every game I find out about a new key 0.o

[AF]

Using the cheat interface and a GlobalAI I could do a scenario for you, albeit it might be unusual simply recieving commands via the console, and someone will have to pick a map and sort out the entire process such as build these, AI has x units patrolling between these 2 points that need blowing up, etc... I havent really tried messing with the figure creatioon functions to place markers onmap tho........

err that was a laoda jumble, if someone creates a guideline of a tutorial, and a map and what they think should happen, then I'll write whatever code is necessary to do it.

[Kixxe]

I must confess i haven't checked out the wiki (last time i saw the section dedicated to learning how to play the game was a long time ago) to see how complete it was and it looks nice and already much of what i was aiming for.
"HTMLify"ing it is normaly the proper way to ship it with the game. And the game really needs to provide users with access to a help system.

*stands proudly*



...

Oh!

Would be usefull... noobs don't that don't know anything could use a ingame guide, or a instruktion movie...

In flash=P

Seously, i have long tought of it... A instuktion video... showing how to build a base and then some micro mangement tips... and maybe some other important tips... But naah, to hard...

Or is it? O.o

[AF]

I thought of that, but not everyones willing to sit and watch a flash vid playing, and a tutorial and ingame system would be more useful as you could look it up there and then. Not to mention a possible bandwidth problem for users on slower systems who dont have time to wait for it to load.

Untill an ingame system si created anyways, there's nothing stopping us making our own one right now. Other windows display ontop of spring ingame fine for me, I can chat on msn and play at the same time if I set my convos to always ontop, why cant we do the same with a help window? Set it so it looks like a button that opens up into a semi transparent index with an FAQ?

[NOiZE]

tipdispenser

[SinbadEV]

One thing that could be usefull... drawings show up in replays so... 2 people play a game (ARM vs CORE) with 2 people on the same team as them drawing on the map and putting up `+double-clicks lables all over explaining what's going on... then people could watch the replay as a spectator and see information (colour coded) about what's going on...

[PauloMorfeo]

Until something better is arranged, the developers could install with the game a link (maybe in the lobby too) to the section "New to Spring:" in the wiki so the ones who want to read help to learn how to play the game, can. (currently i doubt any player who wants to do that will manage to get there)

What does the developers say?

Not the best solution in the world but looks like a very good start.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Is "Generical" a word?

[AF]

Since nobody is suggesting a script and map for me to follow or even responded I shall have to take it upon myself to code a tutorial AI, believe me they're much simpler than a fullblown skirmish AI.

I shall use the map fortress, cus ti looks nice and has a nice range of terrain types. Any objections?

[jcnossen]

Maybe using mars or small divide is better because they are already included in the package.

[AF]

They dont have water though, Maybe if I summoned some mines up and selfdestructed them. A tutorial map should be small with a variety of land types, mountainous, water, flat lowland areas and highland areas, it should look pretty, and have an example of terrain pathfinding differences for tanks hovers kbots etc........