The Community

[Warlord Zsinj]

An actual ranking system really just helps for people to extend their e-peens.

I'd say just keep a record of games played, the amount of wins, losses, draws, disconnects and perhaps a breakdown of the mods that person is playing, and have this as an unchangeable 'profile' that doesn't add to rank, but is viewable by anyone.

The best way to ensure reasonably fair ranking that is difficult to cheat would be to establish an ELO ranking system, in my opinion. But I think the profile thing would be a safer way for people to check player's abilities in-game without giving people the need to beat up their own egos with visible ranking symbols.

[BaNa]

Hey the autohosts used to have a wonderful feature called !stats where they showed all current players win/loss ratio, games played and disconnects on all autohosts, with ANY smurf accounts. Got turned off cause of people spamming the command afaik, but it was useful as fuck. Maybe we could have a bot who does this, fixxed for exploits (a command limit of 1 per min per user maybe)?

edit : by current players i mean players connected to that autohost.

[Wisse]

Spring community isn't as bad as you picture it. There are many ppl including me who are happy to help newbies. But don't expect ppl to help you on ur first 5v5 game because they have alot more work on their hands durning game when there's a newbie on their team.

I would teach basics to 1000 newbies if i had to, just to make spring community bigger. It's the same with countless other guys, just don't go and ruin big games for them.
Host a game with game name that tells us that u want some help and possibly take Beherith's advice and get Team Speak which will make things easier and much faster.
You have to know that community is small and we probably won't notice ur cry for help every time so please be patient. Or you could always contact some of us in lobby x.x

On the other hand you starded something here and than backed off which gives me bad feeling as if you don't have any will to change anything at all. There were others claiming you did the same thing during games. It makes me think that u just like to whine.

[Sabutai]

If a newb asks me sth I allways help. That happens disturbingly often

This community has driven me mad on several occasions. But there a many really cool people like the RoX,DfD and XHC-clans, FA, Deci, Zsinji and many more.

You need to get to know the players youre playing with so you can improve your spring expirience.

Join a clan!

[Hoi]

This community has driven me mad on several occasions. But there a many really cool people like the RoX,DfD and XHC-clans, FA, Deci, Zsinji, Hoi and many more

Fixed

[Sabutai]

lol. Whats your lobby account?

[Hoi]

just Hoi

[PicassoCT]

Evil Stroke of Inspiration

THose who get banned longtime, have to work there way back into Main# doing social service, meaning tutoring newbs in there first game..
Ban me up, Scotty!


Now, let assume there are no offenders, but newbs in need, that´s solid base for rolling dices, or let´s programm an A.I. that detects future offenders on propability and stochastics... we could even sentence newbs to help newbs.. oh, that would make sweet chaos..

[Jasper1984]

For noobs that don't want to be owned, just get a friend to get spring as well, turn hole punching on (or open the needed port) and host yourself. Or find hosts with other noobs. Just ignore people who whine about noobs, that is their problem. If people are not trolling you, listen to their advice.

As for disliking losing, well, instead of focusing on the losing, focus on what you are doing better then you did earlier. (This works better if the adversary stays the same.) In any event when you seem to be losing, do not give up yet! Take a step back and review your options, send scouts, maybe he does not have as many units as you thing, or maybe he has a hole in his defences somewhere.
You can also just use it to experiment. Or in a team game with commander ends, sacrifice your commander against that of your strongest enemy. That can often turn a game around, it can actually feel a bit lame, but usually the enemy was just being too risky with his commander.
As an absolute noob, there are a few things you do need to learn before you are even effectively in the game.(Some of these more then others.)

• Expand, build mexes. Also outside the start points.
• Balance nanopower, energy, metal.(Don't build nanoturrets early, use construction units, replace them with nanos later.)
• Do not build static defences where they will only serve a purpose when you are losing anyway. In many maps static defenses should just two initially to prevent easy raids and a few at the frontline if you need watchtowers make dragoneyes.
• Do not build stuff that will never get finished.

[Teutooni]

THose who get banned longtime, have to work there way back into Main# doing social service, meaning tutoring newbs in there first game..

So the first guys the newbs will meet, the ones representing spring, should be the ones who can't behave? Brilliant!

[PicassoCT]

How about a Newb Supportive "reduced" to Basesicks-Mod, designed for Tutorial Purposes only, a Mod were you can battle, but can´t get more out than a draw (Com indestructible )

A Mod that rewards advanced tactics (like shift) by giving you entrance to next Units...

PS: Sorry if i messed the spelling up, i am more tired than usual.. Good Night

[manored]

Do not build static defences where they will only serve a purpose when you are losing anyway. In many maps static defenses should just two initially to prevent easy raids and a few at the frontline if you need watchtowers make dragoneyes.

Static defenses are nice to preserve the strengh of your units while you are preparing then to attack and they also can be made on spot, I dont see why you should make few :) (but off course, you shouldnt make many either)

[Neddie]

My connection is too spotty for me to pursue a full post, but Sabutai and Wisse have both said relevant things; and I have some news that should be useful to the latter.

Wisse; the rules I promised for the ladder are actually complete. Sadly, I haven't been able to find MelTraX for some time.

Zsinj; the ladder rating systems were based partially upon ELO. They are, of course, opt in. I think any sort of rating system which could be used for the purposes of category segregation should be so.

[Argh]

I hate to put it this way, but there is nothing wrong with letting online players have "e-peens". I dunno where the idea comes from that this is bad- competition for rank will drive players to play better and to play harder, which makes things more exciting. I suppose it could be made optional to gain rank... but other players should always know who they're dealing with.

Smurfing + a lack of a ranking system that makes any sense defeats this. Some random guy named "Jack0121" shows up... is a one bar... players have no idea- is he good, does he have any experience?

It's a poorly designed system. Always has been.

CS servers have had competitive points-based ranking systems for player effectiveness for years and years... and it doesn't hurt anybody to know that somebody's very, very good. Giving people something to legitimately brag about, as opposed to bragging about how much time they've wasted, would be a very good thing.

A gold star just tells you somebody likes to play. It should mean that somebody likes to play, and does a good job. Right now, it's worthless- the "auto-balancing" tools can't do a good job, because that gold star may very well be only good at DSD games 5 v 5 or a SpeedMetal Hero. It's a worthless piece of information, basically, and combined with smurfing, it's no wonder that people have experiences like this.

[Machiosabre]

it's better than the alternative, rankings only have the power to destroy.

[very_bad_soldier]

A gold star just tells you somebody likes to play. It should mean that somebody likes to play, and does a good job. Right now, it's worthless- the "auto-balancing" tools can't do a good job, because that gold star may very well be only good at DSD games 5 v 5 or a SpeedMetal Hero. It's a worthless piece of information, basically, and combined with smurfing, it's no wonder that people have experiences like this.

The ranking system is not worthless, but someone is wrong if he expects it to be 100% accurate. If you know its flaws you may be able to retrieve some useful information out of it easily.

[Gota]

I hate to put it this way, but there is nothing wrong with letting online players have "e-peens". I dunno where the idea comes from that this is bad- competition for rank will drive players to play better and to play harder, which makes things more exciting. I suppose it could be made optional to gain rank... but other players should always know who they're dealing with.

Smurfing + a lack of a ranking system that makes any sense defeats this. Some random guy named "Jack0121" shows up... is a one bar... players have no idea- is he good, does he have any experience?

It's a poorly designed system. Always has been.

CS servers have had competitive points-based ranking systems for player effectiveness for years and years... and it doesn't hurt anybody to know that somebody's very, very good. Giving people something to legitimately brag about, as opposed to bragging about how much time they've wasted, would be a very good thing.

A gold star just tells you somebody likes to play. It should mean that somebody likes to play, and does a good job. Right now, it's worthless- the "auto-balancing" tools can't do a good job, because that gold star may very well be only good at DSD games 5 v 5 or a SpeedMetal Hero. It's a worthless piece of information, basically, and combined with smurfing, it's no wonder that people have experiences like this.

http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtop ... 16&t=14073

this ^ minus smurfing and showing win/loss of ranked games.

[Argh]

rankings only have the power to destroy

Destroy what, pray tell?

Go on... this oughtta be great. Please, explain what a real ranking system "destroys"... and why, if it's soooo awful, every professionally-designed RTS that I've ever played... has one.

[Neddie]

Machio is being sarcastic and incidentally constructing a strawman through expressing an oversimplification of one type of viewpoint.

A forced ranking system has benefits and downsides, but with a community this small the benefits will be few and minor, while the downsides could have far-reaching consequences. Nobody contends the statement that a strong general ranking system promotes competition and raises the bar for standard play. However, you fail to address the negative aspects entirely. Competitive ranking inspires game spoofing and account multiplicity for the purpose of generating good ranks/scores - this can be seen in most commercial multiplayer RTS and FPS games. It introduces a seemingly valid basis for player segregation which further isolates the elite from "lesser" players - this too is easily observed. Lastly, most people don't need to be hounded about their ePenis, nor do they wish to. Forcing a measure upon them is idiotic and irresponsible.

I am getting pretty tired of pointing out the obvious in this discussion every month or so. Maybe I should just end it.

If you (Members of the community at large) are interested in a ranking system which is win/loss based and default, I will work upon one in conjunction with lobby developers and the head server administrator. Since I see both sides of the equation and have considerable experience managing the ladders, I can make a solution which addresses all demands to some extent; though extreme positions to either side will be disappointed.

[Neddie]

I may note that the one I'm considering is expressed in an amalgamation of Zsinj's ideas combined with Argh's, Gota's and my own, with additional sources throughout the community.