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[El Capitano]

Ideally, clan affiliations should be separate from your username. Regarding spring clans and websites, which clans even need one? I mean, what's the largest clan in Spring and how many members do they have? 10, maybe, possibly less? They probably don't need a website/forum/whatever precisely because they don't need one. I once toyed with the idea of making a website for UoY until I realised it wasn't worth bothering with. UoY has maybe 10 people in it total and we're nearlly all RL friends who see each other regularly.

Any clan that's big enough to warrant anything more formal than "clan admins" and "normal members" is probably a cross-game clan and as a result will have their own system set up rather than relying on one game's system.

[Gota]

THats the point.
ATM,clans are small so if you have 5 clan members you dont need anything but an irc channel(still need an automated clan challange).
When a clan has 20 players than what?
Clans are not organized and if aclan has some remote webste that doesnt even get used by It's clan members it doesnt help the community at all.
Structured clans challanges and structured individual challanges.
No more smurfing,player profiles and some more motivation to become better.
When a clan is big and encompasses a few tens of players wouldnt it be convenient if it had an inner voting system?
In spring it can be done automaticly and can be standerdized to make all clans administer themselves,generally, in the same manner unifying the community and making all clans have a page alongside all other clans tha teffects their behaviour in the lobby.
Clans would have several ways to manage themselves and they could vote on it.
I wrote all about it already.
Iv never see nanything like it in any other game and thats exactly what i think spring should have,some usefull originality.

In commercial games there are other stuff to keep the players playing.
Spring cant have a huge PR and marketing campaigns like commercial games but it can have original stuff at the community level making it stand out.

[Teutooni]

Hmm, structured clans sound intresting. Like military ranks or something. Also, for TA based mods, I'd like to see more arm vs CORE mentality.

[Neddie]

I am working with the input from this thread, but I can assure contributors that my solutions will not entirely please any of you. Certain demands or directions will not be followed and many things some of you swear by are not things which I will advocate or permit.

I am attempting to balance several interests and views which are in many cases mutually exclusive.

[Regret]

I am working with the input from this thread, but I can assure contributors that my solutions will not entirely please any of you. Certain demands or directions will not be followed and many things some of you swear by are not things which I will advocate or permit.

I am attempting to balance several interests and views which are in many cases mutually exclusive.

Translation: I loled.

[Crayfish]

That's okay. You can ignore the rest of them and just listen to me.

Look into my eyes, look deep in my eyes...

[Gota]

Hmm, structured clans sound intresting. Like military ranks or something. Also, for TA based mods, I'd like to see more arm vs CORE mentality.

If you would read my wall of text post ud see i mention those extensivly.
The names wouldnt be arm and core for ip reasons but they would be voteable on by the clans/individual players that ar on each side.
All clans and individuals would pick a side to fight for when playin ranked games.And each side would have statistics a voting system and number one player and clan.

It would be like a game outside the game.

[Pressure Line]

PL I really have to call "bullshit" at your claim that most clans are organised enough to have their own site or w/e, in my ~ 3 years of spring experience i have seen this disproven time and time again, and don't really see where you are drawing this assumption from.

I wasnt really talking about Spring clans (as they exist now) i was talking about the many, large, cross-platform clans that exist. These are the guys (and girls) who need attracting to Spring if you want a mass-influx of 'competitive' type players.

Any clan that's big enough to warrant anything more formal than "clan admins" and "normal members" is probably a cross-game clan and as a result will have their own system set up rather than relying on one game's system.

These are the guys im talking about when i talk about clans (although if there was a large (30+ active) Spring clan, id think the same would apply)

A formalisation of clan tags would be a really nice thing, its so easy to /rename [WarC]pintle[lololol] which just creates tedious hassle for lobby mods.

Agreed 100%!

[El Capitano]

Very, very few RTS games have many single-game clans that reach the 20 player level. And even so, 20 players is not many, it's nothing that can't be managed by a bloody chat room. After all, how big are the biggest clans in, say, SuppCom or Dawn of War and how many of those *don't* already have their own system set up?

Trying to provide an over-engineered, structured solution, especially one where the word "force" is used, is a gigantic waste of time and will be used by virtually nobody. Seriously, what is your obsession about this "sides" thing? Quick show of hands, who's going to split their clan in two by basically creating a giant wall of segregation? Clans that play internal team games don't stick with the same teams day in, day out, they mix it up so that everybody knows how to play with everybody else. Internal competition is rarely made truly serious, because it has the habbit of creating rifts, cliques and other social problems. Competetiveness is fostered through encouraging clans to battle other clans. Something like each clan having a "top dominated" and "top nemesis" scoreboard I could get behind, though.

Finally, removing smurfing is another thing entirely from an overly structured clan system. Add a player-name history to each account that's publically visible and create a publicly visitible list of accounts that have used the lobby from that IP address and bingo, most of the smurf problem is solved. It's not eliminated entirely, you can never do that (I have 8 IP addresses I can use, good luck catching me if I want to smurf), but it's at least reduced.

[AF]

Eeek, it would be very nice if someone could go through all of this and outline things in something like Trac so that everything was presented there and then in pretty displays to developers such as myself, making it much much easier for us to actually implement them.

[[TS]Lollocide]

Having visible player-based stats on wins/loses/etc just mean that they'll be some faggit who'll deliberately balance the teams so his team is many times better than the other team.

Also, on the issue on smurfing, I don't think this should be addressed simply because you get noobs who play far better than they should, smurfing adds a certain edge to any game, since you can never know who is skilled and who just sucks balls.

Not to mention attempting to remove smurfing will just make whoever smurfs work that bit harder to dodge the attempt and continue smurfing.

[pintle]

Smurfing is for people who suck too much to play at their actual level of experience, or for people who have behaved in such a way that concealing their identity may make people tolerate them slightly longer.

Sooner it is removed the better imo. Either that or stop autobalancing random team games.

[Teutooni]

Smurfing is also for undercover moderators.

[Neddie]

Undercover, or avoidant. I don't want to be punished some games for being a moderator, particularly if I'm out of practice and not playing at my level (Almost all the time.)

[Gota]

Smurfing must be removed.
seriously if even that is not done this is whole thing is a waste of time.
People like moderators should be allowed to smurf if they see they get abused for being moderators.

[Gota]

Very, very few RTS games have many single-game clans that reach the 20 player level. And even so, 20 players is not many, it's nothing that can't be managed by a bloody chat room. After all, how big are the biggest clans in, say, SuppCom or Dawn of War and how many of those *don't* already have their own system set up?

Trying to provide an over-engineered, structured solution, especially one where the word "force" is used, is a gigantic waste of time and will be used by virtually nobody. Seriously, what is your obsession about this "sides" thing? Quick show of hands, who's going to split their clan in two by basically creating a giant wall of segregation? Clans that play internal team games don't stick with the same teams day in, day out, they mix it up so that everybody knows how to play with everybody else. Internal competition is rarely made truly serious, because it has the habbit of creating rifts, cliques and other social problems. Competetiveness is fostered through encouraging clans to battle other clans. Something like each clan having a "top dominated" and "top nemesis" scoreboard I could get behind, though.

Finally, removing smurfing is another thing entirely from an overly structured clan system. Add a player-name history to each account that's publically visible and create a publicly visitible list of accounts that have used the lobby from that IP address and bingo, most of the smurf problem is solved. It's not eliminated entirely, you can never do that (I have 8 IP addresses I can use, good luck catching me if I want to smurf), but it's at least reduced.

Its not an obsession,its a way to make things interesting.
Its not forcing Its just something to monitor and unify ranked play.
You want a clan of your own thats got nothing to do with tranked play?
Fine,go an make a website of your own but dont expect the lobby to support you.
Sides are just a cool way of making things more complex and allowing more options of play and statistics.
Its the old "core" vs "Arm" legacy but made anonymous...
Its like a semi social network tied in with competetive play.
Not scattered users and clans all over the net but a connected netwrok of players who play on the spring engine.
It wont be over enegeneered imo clans should have a lot of options how to run themselved but we are to provide the infrustructure so clans would feel comfertable in spring.
Im not sure how it will work since i have never seen anything like it but I think it might work very well if the execution is on a high level.
I think it makes sense for the ladder website to expand and include all these options while being in sync with the lobby/lobbies.

You offer about smurfs is rediculeous.
Am i suppose to go check lists for all the players in my room?thats absurd and should not be asked of players.
We just need a bit more moderators who will control it,stop it when they see it and will punish it with a rising degree.
Also i think the email verifications is a good tool to reduce smurfing and whatever other tool that can help shoul als obe implemented step by step.
Of course first of all smurfing shouldbe official proclaimed as breaking the lobby rules.

It owuld also be fair for the people who are about to change stuff to tell me that i shouldstop posting about it if they are sure they do not want to implement it.

[Pressure Line]

Im yet to see you present any compelling evidence as to why this would be good.

Im not sure how it will work since i have never seen anything like it but I think it might work very well if the execution is on a high level.

Theres a reason you have never seen it. Because it really isnt needed. (not in the incarnation you are envisioning) While there are PARTS (better tourney systems, player stats [with a toggle to hide them if you want]) that id liek to see in a Spring Lobby, srsly, do not want, do not need integrated clan management (and who is going to host this gigantic clan management database?)

It wont be over enegeneered imo clans should have a lot of options how to run themselved but we are to provide the infrustructure so clans would feel comfertable in spring.

Clans run everything by themselves in every other game ive ever heard of (barring Eve, but thats an MMO, and a bit different) the reason they arent here isnt because they dont feel 'comfortable', its because they dont know we (Spring) exist.

None of the existing Spring clans even need such a system, the member levels just arent there.

[Teutooni]

Isn't the ladder enough of an infrastructure for competitive players? ~~

Speaking of which, it could use a clan ladder too, imo.

[Gota]

Isn't the ladder enough of an infrastructure for competitive players? ~~

Speaking of which, it could use a clan ladder too, imo.

hasnt this been suggested like... alot?

[Gota]

Im yet to see you present any compelling evidence as to why this would be good.

Im not sure how it will work since i have never seen anything like it but I think it might work very well if the execution is on a high level.

Theres a reason you have never seen it. Because it really isnt needed. (not in the incarnation you are envisioning) While there are PARTS (better tourney systems, player stats [with a toggle to hide them if you want]) that id liek to see in a Spring Lobby, srsly, do not want, do not need integrated clan management (and who is going to host this gigantic clan management database?)

It wont be over enegeneered imo clans should have a lot of options how to run themselved but we are to provide the infrustructure so clans would feel comfertable in spring.

Clans run everything by themselves in every other game ive ever heard of (barring Eve, but thats an MMO, and a bit different) the reason they arent here isnt because they dont feel 'comfortable', its because they dont know we (Spring) exist.

None of the existing Spring clans even need such a system, the member levels just arent there.

It doesn't have to be integrated in the lobby.It can be made via a website but the lobby would have to be connected to it to update the website and profiles with results.

A website wit hall profiles,both clan and player alike would allow easy communication especially if there is an automated matchmaking system where clans can signal out to others and offer a game without having to actually go and find all the other clans players and coordinate it all.
As i wrote before this system would house the players to come in the future and those that are using spring today could test it out in the mean time.
It has never been done cause game makers are lazy and do not want to spend time on it cause they know players aren't expecting such attention to the matter but it doesn't mean this wouldn't be liked a lot.
As an innovative engine i don't see why spring cant have an innovative community organization system.
making it all n one place would make life much easier for all.

Ill sum it up:
1)fight against smurfing.

2)make a clan ladder.

3)make individual and clan profiles.
3.5)link profiles to the lobby so by pressing on an icon ear the nickname or on the nickname would lead you straight to that persons profile(same iwht clans).

4)unite the community under one website that would include all player profiles clan profiles and an infrastructure for match making,and competitive play for those who like it(if done well players that wouldn't have joined the competitive gaming would).
Would also be good if the forums were to unite with it all as well for easy access to all areas and news.

5)high personalization and rewarding.
By that i mean adding many statistics,badges clan options,flags sounds,songs etc..

6)experiment with high competitiveness structuring where each person can make a clan with many options either restrictive or not and allow for different ranks and in clan automatic anonymous voting on different criteria(like choosing a flag,kicking a player out of the clan,accepting a new one,changing ordering in the clans etc..).
Add in clan ladders for clans that want to use them.

6)expand profiles to include community commenting in the form of positive point given for helping out others in different areas.

7)create a sort of 2-3 sided devision(for fun) and create side battles composed of different clans,individuals lasting for a certain period(like big tourneys at which one side wins and gets points after many smaller games).
7.5)include side profiles and voting on different matters like name,flag,anthem,leader of the side etc..