You can issue a area capture order by holding down left mouse button and dragging mouse while having capture selected. They have area effect on their emp shots so its relatively easy to capture whole groups of lower hp units.UAF wrote:3) How and when to use Commandos? It seems that I need to manually target what to capture, and then it takes too long...
Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Metal is territorial. More territory = more metal. So more aggression = more metal. Its that simple.UAF wrote:Thanks for the advice. However I didn't mean that I want to porc and let my allies defend me. I'm just trying to figure how people constantly attack with T1 units and still get T2 and generally better economy then I do.
However, perhaps more important is reclaim. Most units leave 60% of their metal as a wreck. The second time thats recycled, its 36%. 96% of your econ already and its only passed through twice. Thats doubling your economy, just from reclaim. Thats only if you reclaim YOUR units. If you attack sucessfully and reclaim his and your units, he is making 100% of his econ, while you're getting your 100% plus 60% of yours plus 60% of his for 2.2x his economy. Is it any wonder that aggressively players tech smoothly without ever skipping a beat?
Of course, in BA you have the scourge of metalmakers and mohos which throw that all out of whack, you can quick-tech to mohos very very quickly if you know what you're doing. The problem is, most players DONT know what they're doing. I dont suggest this as a tactic but yes its possible. Play greenfields if you want to learn how to do pure economy mm whore (Protip: Dont bother learning this, dont bother playing greenfields. It can be interesting to learn how your economy behaves in this state and to time how fast you can rush a nuke, but this sorta stuff will just lead you down the wrong path if you want to win games).
On units like the intruder and the commando: Dont use them. Stick to flash and stumpies and such. Even to a really good player who knows what he is doing they are niche and rarely useful. You'll find a lot of units in BA are sort of Red Herrings or exist for the novelty, learning how to use them is rarely worth the invested effort. The commando can be 'OK' if you pay a huge amount of attention to it and baby it constantly (since everything it can do needs to be micro'd). The Juno can be quite good but you should learn how to use other stuff first- only use it if the enemy has epic mine porc.
On using bladewings: Give attack orders. Press A Click+drag box around units you wanna stun. Thats the most efficient way to use them. Ya, another one of those units that needs babying. Patrol, Guard and Fight may also work (dunno if they fixed the bugs in BA, works aright in CA), but just moving them into an area rarely does.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Saktoth wrote: However, perhaps more important is reclaim. Most units leave 60% of their metal as a wreck. The second time thats recycled, its 36%. 96% of your econ already and its only passed through twice. Thats doubling your economy, just from reclaim. Thats only if you reclaim YOUR units. If you attack sucessfully and reclaim his and your units, he is making 100% of his econ, while you're getting your 100% plus 60% of yours plus 60% of his for 2.2x his economy. Is it any wonder that aggressively players tech smoothly without ever skipping a beat?
An addendum to this: Before entering a battle, it is worth considering who will be doing the reclaims. It is definitely worth it to control the wrecks, sometimes it is worth fighting a more limited battle with the sure knowledge that you can suck the wrecks afterwards, rather then plunging forward with all your tanks, essentially giving the enemy a ton of m.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
The best strategy guide is the replay of the last game you played. If you're new to Spring and BA then always watch your replays. You'll see were you went wrong and find examples of strats to try yourself.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Do eco porc and the aggressive players won't make better eco than you as they'll be dead. Then you can claim you're better at eco than them, problem solved :P
More seriously, teching quickly should always be done with reclaimed metal.
More seriously, teching quickly should always be done with reclaimed metal.
-
Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
IMO reclaim shouldn't affect your tech/econ order that much (although it can certainly speed it up). I see people rush tech too quickly from reclaim, then run dry and not have the econ to take advantage of that tech nor the units to protect it. Better to ensure that you remain on solid ground militarily and economically as you tech, rather than try to rely on a one-time supply (and the supply will be one-time if you do not maintain a military).
That said, reclaim metal is the best metal. It's quick to get, and every reclaim metal that you take is one less for the enemy, effectively making it twice as good.
That said, reclaim metal is the best metal. It's quick to get, and every reclaim metal that you take is one less for the enemy, effectively making it twice as good.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Do not listen to some of these noob traps above.
For noobs:There are units that you shouldn't use and some u should use a lot.
Here is a list of superior units that you can easy get by with in most cases.
For noobs this means you need to play with these units only.after learning how to play with these units u can start experimenting with others although in most cases you will find them inferior.
level 1 kbots and vehicles :weasel,Jeffy,flea,flash,gator,storm,Rocko,peewee,Ak,slasher,Samson.
Flash and Gator are USUALLY a must unit at most situations even versus heavier ground units like Stumpies or raiders(yes even in large groups).
hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good(they can be useful at relatively rar,tight situations when the battlefield is clogged up with unit wreckage since they can shoot above them while rockos and storms can't.
Use Rockos and storms in MOST cases.
level 2 kbots and vehicles(a small comment,you wont usually need t2 kbots in BA and on most maps you start vehicles anyway so ull probably play t2 kbots much less and most kbot units are inferior to t2 vehicle units): bulldog,Goliath(need a few to get a big advantage),reaper,
sniper(if u must build t2 kbot direct attack units build zeus for arm and Pyro sumo for core).
you might sometimes want to build a few artillery pieces like the t2 artillery or a Penetrator just to psychologically harass your opponent from a far but don't push it with these units in MOST cases you should either build none or only a few.
T1 air units you should notice are Banshee and Core's t1 emp Gunships.
These too can help out land units and the Banshee can penetrate a defensive line without anti air and move directly into the enemy's base destroying first the anti air installations than nano turrets and construction workers than labs and than solars,mexes etc..
small comment about air:t1 fighters are usually unnecessary build ground AA.
T2 air can be used to rush early t2 gunships,build advanced bombers to bomb enemy important targets such as fusions Berthas,commanders,t3 labs etc(if you see an advanced fusion that is almost always your prime target since its explosion will almost always devastate your enemy and hurt his economy badly cause of the adv fusion's huge explosion upon death)...
You'll need tons of fighters if u wish to stop advanced bombers otherwise build ground aa,it will stop gunships but is generally sucky so you better attack with air before your opponent does :) )
Go air only when there are already solid defensive positions and many land units on the battlefield and you see the enemy has no anti air.
An important fact is that the nuke bomber can kill a commander with one shot,in BA,if you drop the bomb close to the commander but not right on him(it will make him fly and receive falling damage which will do him in).
Do not use Kbots on large maps unless your playing a team game in which you are pretty close to your enemy on the opposing team.
In MOST cases play vehicles.
You can even play vehicles on hilly maps but it requires some skill.
You cant however play kbots on flat maps that are bigger than 8x6 or something and if you see someone winning with kbots on flat maps in MOST cases he is just a much better player than his opponent.
-----
If your a noob use the units above,generally prefer vehicles over kbots,and you will have an advantage over others that don't follow this advice.
-----
As for defensive buildings i say:llt llt and again llt.
All other t1 defensive structures are GENERALLY a bad idea but the hlt can be handy at particular situations but if your a noob don't use it,build units instead)
DO NOT BUILD GUARDiANS- this is a major noob trap,no plasma defensive structures please(build attacking units instead)even if you think you'v built one before and it helped you its not true and you would be much better of with attacking units or ecoing or going t2.
Do not use SAM or its equivalent in BA.
It sucks compared to the lighter missile turrets.
It will cover less land,be easier to bomb and is a single target while a bunch of light missile turrets will confuse a player possibly stopping him from attacking your light missile units and just trying to do as much damage as possible to other buildings while his air units are still alive.
If your enemy sees a single SAM standing be sure he will jump on it kill it in a sec and raep the rest of your base.
As for t2 defensive buildings if you'r gonna porc t2 defenses and you're playing vs a good player he will rape you with air and the t2 defenses are actually pretty easily cracked with a god land army as well,even if u have a doomsday machine.
Noobtrap for t2 defensive structures:do not build the arm long laser defensive building(Annihilator?i always confuse the name with the moving unit equivalent which by the way shouldn't be built in most cases as well)It is shit and will die to land attacks as well as small air attacks just don't build it.
If ur core u can try and build a doomsday i guess but moving attack units are ALMOST always better.
About eco,going for mexes isn't always a good thing since at later game stages when your far off into t2 its better to build energy converter economy than go out and try to capture more mexes since they wont live long enough to actually generate a lot of metal.
To be honst the best advice for noobs concerning economy is this:
WATCH YOUR FREAKING METAL AND ENERGY BARS!!!
do not let them be completely full.
The metal bar should be going from 0 to 20% the nergy bar can be full but if u see u have a huge ass energy income that isnt being used build energy converters since they cost almost no metal.
In BA you don't usually need an E storage since its expensive and will definatly ruin your first minutes of play at ALMOST all cases.
In team games if you want to help your teammates yet push your economy forward,when your done expanding and taking metal spots assign 1-2 construction units to build energy producing buildings and 1-2 to make converters,depending on your e and m status at that moment.
Also:do not build armed mexes or clocked mexes they are shit in ba.
Only build clocked mexes if you want to trap an incoming enemy army in the emp blast of an exploding clocked mex(when it explodes it makes an emp blast stunning surrounding units.You can also self destruct it as the army approaches).
For noobs:There are units that you shouldn't use and some u should use a lot.
Here is a list of superior units that you can easy get by with in most cases.
For noobs this means you need to play with these units only.after learning how to play with these units u can start experimenting with others although in most cases you will find them inferior.
level 1 kbots and vehicles :weasel,Jeffy,flea,flash,gator,storm,Rocko,peewee,Ak,slasher,Samson.
Flash and Gator are USUALLY a must unit at most situations even versus heavier ground units like Stumpies or raiders(yes even in large groups).
hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good(they can be useful at relatively rar,tight situations when the battlefield is clogged up with unit wreckage since they can shoot above them while rockos and storms can't.
Use Rockos and storms in MOST cases.
level 2 kbots and vehicles(a small comment,you wont usually need t2 kbots in BA and on most maps you start vehicles anyway so ull probably play t2 kbots much less and most kbot units are inferior to t2 vehicle units): bulldog,Goliath(need a few to get a big advantage),reaper,
sniper(if u must build t2 kbot direct attack units build zeus for arm and Pyro sumo for core).
you might sometimes want to build a few artillery pieces like the t2 artillery or a Penetrator just to psychologically harass your opponent from a far but don't push it with these units in MOST cases you should either build none or only a few.
T1 air units you should notice are Banshee and Core's t1 emp Gunships.
These too can help out land units and the Banshee can penetrate a defensive line without anti air and move directly into the enemy's base destroying first the anti air installations than nano turrets and construction workers than labs and than solars,mexes etc..
small comment about air:t1 fighters are usually unnecessary build ground AA.
T2 air can be used to rush early t2 gunships,build advanced bombers to bomb enemy important targets such as fusions Berthas,commanders,t3 labs etc(if you see an advanced fusion that is almost always your prime target since its explosion will almost always devastate your enemy and hurt his economy badly cause of the adv fusion's huge explosion upon death)...
You'll need tons of fighters if u wish to stop advanced bombers otherwise build ground aa,it will stop gunships but is generally sucky so you better attack with air before your opponent does :) )
Go air only when there are already solid defensive positions and many land units on the battlefield and you see the enemy has no anti air.
An important fact is that the nuke bomber can kill a commander with one shot,in BA,if you drop the bomb close to the commander but not right on him(it will make him fly and receive falling damage which will do him in).
Do not use Kbots on large maps unless your playing a team game in which you are pretty close to your enemy on the opposing team.
In MOST cases play vehicles.
You can even play vehicles on hilly maps but it requires some skill.
You cant however play kbots on flat maps that are bigger than 8x6 or something and if you see someone winning with kbots on flat maps in MOST cases he is just a much better player than his opponent.
-----
If your a noob use the units above,generally prefer vehicles over kbots,and you will have an advantage over others that don't follow this advice.
-----
As for defensive buildings i say:llt llt and again llt.
All other t1 defensive structures are GENERALLY a bad idea but the hlt can be handy at particular situations but if your a noob don't use it,build units instead)
DO NOT BUILD GUARDiANS- this is a major noob trap,no plasma defensive structures please(build attacking units instead)even if you think you'v built one before and it helped you its not true and you would be much better of with attacking units or ecoing or going t2.
Do not use SAM or its equivalent in BA.
It sucks compared to the lighter missile turrets.
It will cover less land,be easier to bomb and is a single target while a bunch of light missile turrets will confuse a player possibly stopping him from attacking your light missile units and just trying to do as much damage as possible to other buildings while his air units are still alive.
If your enemy sees a single SAM standing be sure he will jump on it kill it in a sec and raep the rest of your base.
As for t2 defensive buildings if you'r gonna porc t2 defenses and you're playing vs a good player he will rape you with air and the t2 defenses are actually pretty easily cracked with a god land army as well,even if u have a doomsday machine.
Noobtrap for t2 defensive structures:do not build the arm long laser defensive building(Annihilator?i always confuse the name with the moving unit equivalent which by the way shouldn't be built in most cases as well)It is shit and will die to land attacks as well as small air attacks just don't build it.
If ur core u can try and build a doomsday i guess but moving attack units are ALMOST always better.
About eco,going for mexes isn't always a good thing since at later game stages when your far off into t2 its better to build energy converter economy than go out and try to capture more mexes since they wont live long enough to actually generate a lot of metal.
To be honst the best advice for noobs concerning economy is this:
WATCH YOUR FREAKING METAL AND ENERGY BARS!!!
do not let them be completely full.
The metal bar should be going from 0 to 20% the nergy bar can be full but if u see u have a huge ass energy income that isnt being used build energy converters since they cost almost no metal.
In BA you don't usually need an E storage since its expensive and will definatly ruin your first minutes of play at ALMOST all cases.
In team games if you want to help your teammates yet push your economy forward,when your done expanding and taking metal spots assign 1-2 construction units to build energy producing buildings and 1-2 to make converters,depending on your e and m status at that moment.
Also:do not build armed mexes or clocked mexes they are shit in ba.
Only build clocked mexes if you want to trap an incoming enemy army in the emp blast of an exploding clocked mex(when it explodes it makes an emp blast stunning surrounding units.You can also self destruct it as the army approaches).
Last edited by Gota on 08 Aug 2008, 10:51, edited 7 times in total.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
This is a very good summary.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Wow Basic, nice stuff. Also, I commend you on the spelling and paragraph structures, it is much more legible than your usual posts!Gota wrote:Good stuff
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
If there are a lot of wrecks, thuds are better cause they fire over.Gota wrote: hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good.
Use Rockos and storms instead.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
thuds are actually pretty good
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
yeah once you get a nice group of them, they can slaughter
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
especially on hill maps, just get about 20, attack, but keep them in a nice line so they can all fire and dont get splash damage
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
I think one of the good points of hammers/thuds is that they do not require the tedious line-micro that rockos do. OFC, micro is useful here, but I usually make these kbots when I know i wont have too much command time for babysitting. Also, hammer shots are harder to dodge than rocko shots, so they are more useful v fast moving units.Hoi wrote:especially on hill maps, just get about 20, attack, but keep them in a nice line so they can all fire and dont get splash damage
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Actually that's just the other way around.
Plasma shots are shot in an arch which means that at some places along their flight paths they will fly above units being unable to hit them while missiles fly straight forward and are able to hit units at any point in their flight.
Hams and thuds are in general too expensive for what they offer.
Plasma shots are shot in an arch which means that at some places along their flight paths they will fly above units being unable to hit them while missiles fly straight forward and are able to hit units at any point in their flight.
Hams and thuds are in general too expensive for what they offer.
-
Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
thud/hammer can also break up DT lines, as well as shoot over them, and i dont think rocko/storm canLordMatt wrote:If there are a lot of wrecks, thuds are better cause they fire over.Gota wrote: hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good.
Use Rockos and storms instead.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Gota wrote:Actually that's just the other way around.
Plasma shots are shot in an arch which means that at some places along their flight paths they will fly above units being unable to hit them while missiles fly straight forward and are able to hit units at any point in their flight.
Hams and thuds are in general too expensive for what they offer.
Thuds are best for com-pushing and def line killing. THey have some bonus against llts :)
Also it is one of the best units for slaughtering com.
Also they are raping flashes quite fast. (there is some innaccuracy, but anyway).
Best used with a pack of pewees or AKs behind that will attack when thuds, hammers are already in battle.
As for advices for noobs ill tell 2 of the most important:
1. PRESS LETTER "I" IN GAME FOR INFO ABOUT MAP (TIDAL AND WIND STR ARE SUPERIOR) AND GAME And stop at last building wind generators on DsD and ccr :)
2. It was already said but ill repeat - watch replays! Nothing give you more game expirience than this. And not attacking when there is a chance to break through is a fail too. Aswell as not helping an ally in some situations (like reclaiming dead com).
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
1)yes they can but not as good.Pressure Line wrote:thud/hammer can also break up DT lines, as well as shoot over them, and i dont think rocko/storm canLordMatt wrote:If there are a lot of wrecks, thuds are better cause they fire over.Gota wrote: hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good.
Use Rockos and storms instead.
2)dt in BA?watcha talking about mister?
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
I agree that in most cases, rockos are much more worth it.Gota wrote:Actually that's just the other way around.
Plasma shots are shot in an arch which means that at some places along their flight paths they will fly above units being unable to hit them while missiles fly straight forward and are able to hit units at any point in their flight.
Hams and thuds are in general too expensive for what they offer.
And in big numbers, what you say about the rockets going straight is also true, if you have a big line of rockos against many units then they will usually hit.
However, small numbers of rockos are very vulnerable cause their rockets :
-hit each other
-are slow enough that fast units can change direction and avoid them
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Gota wrote: Also:do not build armed mexes or clocked mexes they are shit in ba.
uh huh