I don't know how other people find this, but the way unit groups currently behave is really quite annoying for me.
The fact that it selects all units in the unit group is just a pain. Too often I find myself ordering construction units around instead of just my combat units, or having the factory selected when I don't want it to be.
What I suggest is this:
Alt+(Number)_selects all units in the group
(Number)____selects all combat units in the group, +Farks, Necros, and minelayers.
It would save a lot of silly mistakes, for me at least. Yeah, I know you can use the selection editor to deselect all non-combat units in your selection, but from the point of view of convenience, this would work much better.
Unit groups
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Unit groups
Quoted for stupid.Doomweaver wrote: The fact that it selects all units in the unit group is just a pain.
Bad key. Selects all units in the group. BAD!
If you dont want farks in you group, dont put them into it...
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
Re: Unit groups
That's not what I said, I said combat units AND fark's necros and all that.IMSabbel wrote: If you dont want farks in you group, dont put them into it...
In other words, press alt and then the number for it to work the way it does now, or just tap the number to get non-constrution units/factories.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
actually, part of what he said make sense... if just pressing numbers instead of shift or whatever we sould have more unit groups
CTRL+# set as group #
# Selects Group #
CTRL+SHIFT+# set as group S#
SHIFT+# select group S#
CTRL+ALT set as group A#
ALT+# select group A#
CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+# set as group SA#
ALT+SHIFT+# selects group SA#
Scroll Lock/Caps Lock is useless anyways so you could include this aswell in the switches... assign combat forces while scroll-lock is on and base management to when scroll lock is off, 3 sets of 40 groups to deal with. TEH AWSOME!!!
you would have to allow multiple groups to be assigned to the same units, that would require a way to remove items from specific groups... maybe THAT could be assinged to the ALT Key
(aka, CTRL+1 add to group 1, ALT+CTRL+1 remove from group 1, 1 select group 1)
However... it almost makes sense to have SHIFT+# choose all units in the group, ALT+# choose all buildings and # select just attacking units... maybe this type of thing could be tied to the selection editor too... you might think we're lazy, but you can't deny that we don't all run into this, you've just already come up with a fix for it and don't want to learn something new I think...
wow, I really sound dumb
CTRL+# set as group #
# Selects Group #
CTRL+SHIFT+# set as group S#
SHIFT+# select group S#
CTRL+ALT set as group A#
ALT+# select group A#
CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+# set as group SA#
ALT+SHIFT+# selects group SA#
Scroll Lock/Caps Lock is useless anyways so you could include this aswell in the switches... assign combat forces while scroll-lock is on and base management to when scroll lock is off, 3 sets of 40 groups to deal with. TEH AWSOME!!!
you would have to allow multiple groups to be assigned to the same units, that would require a way to remove items from specific groups... maybe THAT could be assinged to the ALT Key
(aka, CTRL+1 add to group 1, ALT+CTRL+1 remove from group 1, 1 select group 1)
However... it almost makes sense to have SHIFT+# choose all units in the group, ALT+# choose all buildings and # select just attacking units... maybe this type of thing could be tied to the selection editor too... you might think we're lazy, but you can't deny that we don't all run into this, you've just already come up with a fix for it and don't want to learn something new I think...
wow, I really sound dumb
SinbadEv, your suggestion could be interesting, however I'm afraid that using the shift, ctrl and alt keys for that would conflict with current uses of these keys, and prevent using them for more interesting things.
I have a different set of improvements to propose: first of all, I'm surprised nobody complained about the changing of rally point when you select your group and right-click to move them. What happens every time is that it selects the factory along with the group, and the rally point changes to the waypoint where you are sending your units. I've had units wandering around the map stupidly because of that.
Simple solution to this problem: make factories ignore right-click move orders, and only respond to the M key move order. Just as it did in OTA.
Second, I think that an even better solution would be to use a different way of assigning newly built units to groups. It would be awesome to be able to assign different units of a same factory to different groups, so as to avoid sending your constructors to death along with other units, for example. Proposed solution: Alt+number key when pointing to a buildpic in a factory's construction menu assigns all units of that type built in the factory to that number group. This should be reflected by a little red group number in one of the buildpic's corners. Alt+shift+number key when clicking the buildpic would assign ALL units coming out of that factory to that number group.
OK, if you want to get really tricky, you could also add this one: Alt+ctrl+number key when clicking a buildpic would assign ALL units of that type FROM ANY factory to that number group. Useful if you have 5 factories producing brawlers.
An alternative and more powerful way of implementing this second suggestion would be to make the selection keys work in a special way for factories: when only factories are selected, using any shortcut defined in the selection editor would select/deselect the corresponding buildpics instead of actual units. Then, when buildpics are selected, you could assign them to groups using your usual ctrl 0-9 keys.
I think this is the best way to do it because:
- you don't add any new shortcut keys, just change the behavior in way that makes sense
- you can select any mix of future units from all/any factories and assign them to groups quickly
- it will not hinder the normal use of the shortcut keys, because it's really hard to accidentaly have only factories selected. After giving build orders, it's not hard to deselect them before resuming normal use of the shortcut keys.
Finally (third suggestion), assigning groups to units that come out of factories is useful, but can be a bit of fuss. What if you want all your lvl 2 fighters to go straight to group 1 from the start of the game? I think you should either be able to assign units to default groups (with some kind of txt file/editor) before the game, or else we should add a "+_future" condition to the selection editor, that selects future units of the selected kind as well. This way, you can give them any sequence of default orders, and assign them to groups. I.e. these new units come pre-built with orders.
A "+_future_only" condition would be useful as well, to use when you don't want to give orders to already built units.
Comment away!
I have a different set of improvements to propose: first of all, I'm surprised nobody complained about the changing of rally point when you select your group and right-click to move them. What happens every time is that it selects the factory along with the group, and the rally point changes to the waypoint where you are sending your units. I've had units wandering around the map stupidly because of that.
Simple solution to this problem: make factories ignore right-click move orders, and only respond to the M key move order. Just as it did in OTA.
Second, I think that an even better solution would be to use a different way of assigning newly built units to groups. It would be awesome to be able to assign different units of a same factory to different groups, so as to avoid sending your constructors to death along with other units, for example. Proposed solution: Alt+number key when pointing to a buildpic in a factory's construction menu assigns all units of that type built in the factory to that number group. This should be reflected by a little red group number in one of the buildpic's corners. Alt+shift+number key when clicking the buildpic would assign ALL units coming out of that factory to that number group.
OK, if you want to get really tricky, you could also add this one: Alt+ctrl+number key when clicking a buildpic would assign ALL units of that type FROM ANY factory to that number group. Useful if you have 5 factories producing brawlers.
An alternative and more powerful way of implementing this second suggestion would be to make the selection keys work in a special way for factories: when only factories are selected, using any shortcut defined in the selection editor would select/deselect the corresponding buildpics instead of actual units. Then, when buildpics are selected, you could assign them to groups using your usual ctrl 0-9 keys.
I think this is the best way to do it because:
- you don't add any new shortcut keys, just change the behavior in way that makes sense
- you can select any mix of future units from all/any factories and assign them to groups quickly
- it will not hinder the normal use of the shortcut keys, because it's really hard to accidentaly have only factories selected. After giving build orders, it's not hard to deselect them before resuming normal use of the shortcut keys.
Finally (third suggestion), assigning groups to units that come out of factories is useful, but can be a bit of fuss. What if you want all your lvl 2 fighters to go straight to group 1 from the start of the game? I think you should either be able to assign units to default groups (with some kind of txt file/editor) before the game, or else we should add a "+_future" condition to the selection editor, that selects future units of the selected kind as well. This way, you can give them any sequence of default orders, and assign them to groups. I.e. these new units come pre-built with orders.
A "+_future_only" condition would be useful as well, to use when you don't want to give orders to already built units.
Comment away!
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
About suggestion 3, it's a bit harsh on n00bs to have to set things before they play. But yeah assigning buildpics to a certain group could be useful.
Maybe by default, if you assign a factory to a unit group, it doesn't do it to the construction unit. You would have to scroll your mouse over and manually set it's group. So you have all the flexibility you want, like what you said with the selection editor would make a lot of sense, but by default only a tap of a button is needed.
Maybe by default, if you assign a factory to a unit group, it doesn't do it to the construction unit. You would have to scroll your mouse over and manually set it's group. So you have all the flexibility you want, like what you said with the selection editor would make a lot of sense, but by default only a tap of a button is needed.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
or select a unit, and press Ctrl-Z. Selects all of the units on the whole map of the ones currently selected (ie: if you have selected a brawler and a pheonix, it will select all the brawlers and pheonix's on the map). So select one of each unit you want and either double click for onscreen, or Ctrl-Z for all of them.
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
I agree with Maelstrom, just select a sampling of what you want and use Ctrl Z.. Saves a TON of problems. Also due to the whole factory rally point issues I've just resorted to not binding factories to teams anymore and just order units to pool up in certain places where I'll go and (if no more are bound to teams) I'll pick like one plane/tank/what-have-you and Ctrl+Z the flock and then do my thing.
As for the con units.. I dunno, I've just resorted to building a single factory devoted to con units for each type (Typically Adv Con-Vee or Con-Air). For say... automating Krogoth production (though it can work on any automated production.) Build 2 factories (your call what they are), set one to pump out con units and order all those con units in advance to guard the second factory. (Couldn't do that in OTA, no factory guard command.) Then order the 2nd factory to build whatever you want and send it out to a rally point for further instructions. Automated mass construction. Also when I want to build something I just yank a few con units off the construction pits and send them to do whatever.
I've found that such a system can be really quite efficient. Plus when a weapons factory is saturated (your call when that is) with con units, take your con factory and direct it to another weapons factory and saturate that one if you haven't already.
As for the con units.. I dunno, I've just resorted to building a single factory devoted to con units for each type (Typically Adv Con-Vee or Con-Air). For say... automating Krogoth production (though it can work on any automated production.) Build 2 factories (your call what they are), set one to pump out con units and order all those con units in advance to guard the second factory. (Couldn't do that in OTA, no factory guard command.) Then order the 2nd factory to build whatever you want and send it out to a rally point for further instructions. Automated mass construction. Also when I want to build something I just yank a few con units off the construction pits and send them to do whatever.
I've found that such a system can be really quite efficient. Plus when a weapons factory is saturated (your call when that is) with con units, take your con factory and direct it to another weapons factory and saturate that one if you haven't already.
Meh, just fix it soo that no constusk units or factories gets selected when you make it ''1'' or something.
The only thing I want is to have units belong to sevral groups. So if i have a group for bulldogs, i can pull foward with that, but if i want some to stay behind to whacth the artillery, i make so that they can be iether be a part of group 1 or 2.... i find this usefull in other games.
The only thing I want is to have units belong to sevral groups. So if i have a group for bulldogs, i can pull foward with that, but if i want some to stay behind to whacth the artillery, i make so that they can be iether be a part of group 1 or 2.... i find this usefull in other games.
That's a good idea, as long as you have an easy way to remove units from a group. Right now I remove constructors out of all unit groups by using ctrl-z and assigning them to group 9 - with your idea that wouldn't work anymore.Kixxe wrote:The only thing I want is to have units belong to sevral groups. So if i have a group for bulldogs, i can pull foward with that, but if i want some to stay behind to whacth the artillery, i make so that they can be iether be a part of group 1 or 2.... i find this usefull in other games.
@CaptainMaim: I think that the techniques you're describing are very efficient, but they are efficient workarounds for some interface problems. For example, building an extra factory for constructors is an ok solution, but sometimes in the heat of battle it's just not possible because of resource shortage: you'll want to use your one lab in the best way possible.
There is a ''remove from group'' button (or somethign smilar). They hotkey is Q.That's a good idea, as long as you have an easy way to remove units from a group. Right now I remove constructors out of all unit groups by using ctrl-z and assigning them to group 9 - with your idea that wouldn't work anymore.
*nod's*@CaptainMaim: I think that the techniques you're describing are very efficient, but they are efficient workarounds for some interface problems. For example, building an extra factory for constructors is an ok solution, but sometimes in the heat of battle it's just not possible because of resource shortage: you'll want to use your one lab in the best way possible.
If Warlord was here would ramble something about a ''bandaid solution''.
Okay, I reread the whole treadh, and i come to some conclusions.
Gabba, your suggestions are intresting and would solve the problem, but they are iether hard to implent or will make pepole(noobs for instance) confused when you change the controls.
Esay solution: Just make it so that factories don't get selected when you press the key. I don't know many pepole that use hot keyd structures anyway. IF pepole do, just make another set of hot keys using alt. Can we all agree that hotkeyd groups of units are better then just hotkeyd buildings?
Or something... try to keep it simple, will ya?
umm... your talking about my suggestion, right?
What i was talking about would't stop factories from having waypoints. I just said that if you hot-key a factory, only your unit's get selected, that excluding all no wepon unit's.
If you ''alt-hot-key'' it, you get the factory, but not the units.
yea... thats all there is to it.
What i was talking about would't stop factories from having waypoints. I just said that if you hot-key a factory, only your unit's get selected, that excluding all no wepon unit's.
If you ''alt-hot-key'' it, you get the factory, but not the units.
yea... thats all there is to it.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
The problem is that sometimes we want the facotry selected, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we want a group of construction units, sometimes its just done by mistake. Anything we come up with has to address these two issues, or else we may as well leave it how it is.
The reason I suggested that by default the button should only select combat units, whereas with alt it should select all unts, is because this is close to what occured in OTA.
In OTA, ALT+# would select everything except the factory, so the only change for people who are migrating from one to the other is that it also selects the factory. On the other hand, just tapping the number is generally more useful, as it doesn't have you change the way point, or make silly mistakes with construction units.
The reason I suggested that by default the button should only select combat units, whereas with alt it should select all unts, is because this is close to what occured in OTA.
In OTA, ALT+# would select everything except the factory, so the only change for people who are migrating from one to the other is that it also selects the factory. On the other hand, just tapping the number is generally more useful, as it doesn't have you change the way point, or make silly mistakes with construction units.