Battletech - Page 27

Battletech

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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What weapon stat system should we base it on?

Poll ended at 26 Sep 2005, 00:17

Tabletop Battletech
10
56%
MW2
3
17%
MW3
3
17%
MW4
2
11%
 
Total votes: 18

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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

MC2 now has 'shared source' artwork. meaning that for *non-commercial* projects you can use the artwork from it.
do please show :!:

what im mainly frustrated with right now is getting the infantry to work. yes we could always use more modelers and texturers but if the models dont have any guts (script and supporting lua) they are just nice looking tanks.

the infantry is kind of a pain because i dont want to overload the game with many small units for infantry and im trying to figure out how a 'squad' like unit should work properly. orignally we though making a lua script that controls satellite units thru a null unit in the center, but that would only really help control of a squad, the movement of each indivdual unit would still be some waht clogging to system res (move and hit calcs) so i can only assume the next best step is a single unit with many little clones that have a fancy animation in thier script to look not so single unit/ tankish.
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Pressure Line
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Re: Battletech

Post by Pressure Line »

bobthedinosaur wrote:the infantry is kind of a pain because i dont want to overload the game with many small units for infantry and im trying to figure out how a 'squad' like unit should work properly. orignally we though making a lua script that controls satellite units thru a null unit in the center, but that would only really help control of a squad, the movement of each indivdual unit would still be some waht clogging to system res (move and hit calcs) so i can only assume the next best step is a single unit with many little clones that have a fancy animation in thier script to look not so single unit/ tankish.
i know what you mean, having tested S44 rigorously for over a year now, infantry is very hard to balance in relation to heavier stuff. and thats just in a WW2 setting. imo BT is even tougher, where you have 100 tonne mechs [all with multiple, powerful and often rapid fire weapon systems] running around at 70kph, all S44 has to deal with are a load of half blind ww2 tanks ;)
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Argh
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Re: Battletech

Post by Argh »

the infantry is kind of a pain because i dont want to overload the game with many small units for infantry and im trying to figure out how a 'squad' like unit should work properly. orignally we though making a lua script that controls satellite units thru a null unit in the center, but that would only really help control of a squad, the movement of each indivdual unit would still be some waht clogging to system res (move and hit calcs) so i can only assume the next best step is a single unit with many little clones that have a fancy animation in thier script to look not so single unit/ tankish.
Quit worrying about that. Just worry about getting them functional, and think hard about balance. I'd make infantry representational, for performance reasons- use 7-man squads, but give them strength based on platoon rules.

But you don't have to, so long as you're aware that there are no free lunches. I'd honestly have to say... forget the multi-guy-on-one-base ideas... they've been tried with OTA and Spring, multiple times, and always, always, always have cost more CPU time than just using lots of independent actors, and always look like crap. It seems crazy, but it's just how it is.

I have squad code written, and it's well-tested and works. Performance of even up to platoon-sized elements in Spring is not a big deal, so long as you keep piece-count and polycount down... and by the time you're really ready, P.U.R.E. will be out and I will answer questions about how to integrate it into your project. And no, it doesn't require any really fancy COB, weird modeling, etc. Just make your guys as singletons, get them polished, and be patient. It does not do DoW-style stuff, because I found that it simply costs too much CPU, at the typical unit-counts in Spring- a 15-guy squad is unusually large, in DoW- I have a feeling they hit the same wall I did :|



Other stuff...

Heat management is mainly simple COB.

The only Lua you need is to let people choose priorities on weapons, whether or not to risk destruction, and a heat gauge.

Doing a gauge is probably the most non-trivial part. KDR has some nice code available, as do the CA guys- the Healthbars Widget could be modified pretty easily to do a gauge like that. Basically, it's just a matter of displaying a texrect above the unit, that's scaled / colored based on how hot it is.

As for priorities and controls... that's mainly good ol' COB. You probably have the main systems written already, but meh, here's some code.

You just need a loop changing which heat-management system runs- you could have settings for default, short-range, medium-range, long-range weapons, for example. Then, if in auto-management mode, it simply won't let anything fire if it will exceed a certain heat value, by jamming the weapon script. Then cycle back through after a second, and lower the heat values again. Simple.

The only Lua needed is a control that calls a COB script that changes some static-vars. There isn't any reason to make this more complex than it needs to be.

Here... this is a sketch of a very simple management system, on the weapon end...

Code: Select all

AimWeapon1(heading, pitch)
{
WeaponType = 1;
HeatLevel = 6;

if (WeaponTypeRequested == 0 or WeaponTypeRequested == WeaponType or CurrentHeatLevel + HeatLevel < MaxHeatLevel / 4)  {
Aiming Stuff

return (1);

} else { sleep WaitCycle; return (0);}
}

Shot1()
{
CurrentHeatLevel = CurrentHeatLevel + 6;  // Do it here to prevent borks 
}
And on the user-control end... they just need to have a control loop, called by Lua-->COB, something like this:

Code: Select all

HeatControl()
{
If (ControlNumber > 5) { ControlNumber = 1; }

If (ControlNumber == 1)
{
ControlNumber == 2;
WeaponTypeRequested = 0;
call-script lua_HeatControls(2);
return(0);
}

}

}
And that's just about all there is to it. You just call the HeatControls Lua script, which, based on the argument, changes the text on the button. Every time users hit the button and issue the command, it just runs that COB, which in turn calls a Lua script that changes the label. The real stuff- the actual game-logic- is in COB, where it should be, instead of making life more complicated than it needs to be.

So, all you need now is to learn the Lua for displaying a command button (check out THIS or a bazillion other things) and you need to know how to change the text of a command (again, this is in multiple projects, it's very easy to do). Lua's not the complex part, and I know you know how to write COB, so there ya go- do your gamecode where it needs to be.

You can do amazing stuff with Lua by just keeping it simple, frankly. Look at Lua as a way for users to control the main state loops of your game logic- it doesn't need to be some incredibly messy piece of automation. Let COB handle all the stuff it already does well- don't make a Lua hack that does something that's trivial in COB, that's just poor design.

This isn't Fibre, after all, it's a pretty straightforward RTS, and the only fuzzy bits are the rules specific to Battletech, almost all of which can be handled more than adequately by COB (critical hits, or even doing a full, accurate armor-point schema, for example, is trivial, if tedious, but meh, it's just one giant include you only have to write once besides some values anyhow- I could write that in my sleep, tbh).

While COB is significantly slower than Lua, so long as you're not doing something foolish like higher math on a per-frame basis, COB is speedy enough for what you want it to do, and is just fine for logic like this. I have lots of COBs in P.U.R.E. that are hundreds of lines long- most of which aren't running most of the time, and just sit there, waiting for the right condition to occur- most often, a Lua instruction from a user command, which may trigger other Lua elsewhere, then circle back again.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

we have heat and ammunition reloading already
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Pressure Line
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Re: Battletech

Post by Pressure Line »

just gonna fire an idea out, feel free to ignore it or whatever ^_^

Gametype: for now, the focus is on showing off what you have done so far. basically have 2 options (these are not mutually exclusive):

*1* spawn some units at the start of the game and duke it out a la Comm Shooter/War Evo, this is super easy, just get whatever you have, and stick it in game, make some random spawner that gives you a starting squad that adds up to 1000 tonnes (or even better make it selectable before the game starts!)

*2* OTA style commanders/factories eco etc, but limited to the 'light' stage of BT. basically choose 5 mechs, 5 wheeled/tracked vechs (possibly 5 of each? I don't know whether/how you intend on representing BT wheeled vech poor off-road performance) 5 hovers and 5 planes with a 50 tonne weight limit. (5 is a nice number, i use it a lot 8) but 6 works too) this gives you scout, light attack, anti-air, light assault and fire support. The reason i am suggesting that you stick to light tech, is because it should help keep the gameplay of your first release nice and fluid. Adding hovers as a separate fac (and indeed including them in the first place) makes sense, it should be a conscious descision to use the speed and mobility of BT hover vs its relative lack of armor and high cost compared to wheeled/tracked, plus it will keep maps with water on from turning into gigantic lagfest airbattles

I remember Bob saying that the first release was slated to be 3025, so no Clans, great! makes it even easier, because you only *have* to do one side.

i dont know how much you guys have ready, so this may or may not apply, but pick 25 or so combat unit models (you could even do some IS faction specific ones, like a mech thats only used by Fed Suns, or Draconis Combine or whatever, and substitute one of the generic ones), get them done, add in some generic eco and factory stuff (or pinch it from MC2) and boom! you have a release. leave all the Lua trickery out of it for the moment (unless its already implimented and working as it should) and concentrate on getting something out there, even if its only a limited release, with <50t, all us BT fans will love you for it :-)

**god i hope that all made sense**
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Pressure Line
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Re: Battletech

Post by Pressure Line »

double post for great justice. i know of at least 2 torrents that have all/most of the BT rulebooks, TRO's etc

Please don't discuss piracy on these forums. - Neddiedrow

now now, there was a reason I didnt link ;)
Last edited by Pressure Line on 01 Aug 2008, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.
Archangel of Death
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Re: Battletech

Post by Archangel of Death »

Well, some of that LUA stuff is what makes it BTech so it can't really be cut out. Sure we can avoid jump jets for a while, but its just not the same without appendages getting blown off and that occasional death by headshot! Heat stuff is fully finished, and ammo stuff only needs to be tweaked to accommodate whatever methods are in place to reload units. I actually started the cob side of damage stuff yesterday, and the lua stuff is just some FBI->COB initialization and possibly special death-case handling. but deving on my laptop is even harder than trying to play Spring with the touchpad. (Anyone got an ECS RC410L-800M or similar chipset motherboard laying around? :wink: )

Once that stuff is done, I was actually considering something like *1* with whatever textured models I have/can get for a quick, possibly releasable demo of it.
hamsate
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Re: Battletech

Post by hamsate »

Pressure Line wrote: *1* spawn some units at the start of the game and duke it out a la Comm Shooter/War Evo, this is super easy, just get whatever you have, and stick it in game, make some random spawner that gives you a starting squad that adds up to 1000 tonnes (or even better make it selectable before the game starts!)
Deployment mode comes to mind.. just maybe you can make the M/E cost equivalent to their mech's ton.

Starting to sound like CA.. eh.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

well we were thinking a reinforcement like deployment, so units can be added in game but only at certain times and they arent built they are unloaded from dropships at designated drop points.
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Pressure Line
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Re: Battletech

Post by Pressure Line »

2 things.

1) CA has jumpjets >_>

2) I just finished a Savannah Master model (and some really bad textures, IS great house colours) yours if you want it ;)

Image
Last edited by Pressure Line on 01 Sep 2008, 13:32, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
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Re: Battletech

Post by smoth »

pressureline, would you consider donating those as-is to TD?

PM me if you would consider it!
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

pretty nice
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Hoi
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Re: Battletech

Post by Hoi »

smoth wrote:pressureline, would you consider donating those as-is to TD?

PM me if you would consider it!
Yeah, it has the TD style.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

vhat iz td?
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Hoi
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Re: Battletech

Post by Hoi »

bobthedinosaur wrote:vhat iz td?
I think its some kind of hovercraft thrusted by some kind of missile
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Wolf-In-Exile
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Re: Battletech

Post by Wolf-In-Exile »

Tower Defense.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Battletech

Post by bobthedinosaur »

thats a fan not a missile
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Jazcash
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Re: Battletech

Post by Jazcash »

" The Hover Dart "
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smoth
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Re: Battletech

Post by smoth »

aw, no pm :'(
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