NOTA 1.82

[Totbuae]

Quick bug report. The Sprinteurs doesn't have upright=1 which makes it look very funny when it climbs up a hill.

[Saktoth]

123v, this is an inappropriate place to discuss CA. I will only say here: CA is much more complex than BA, or even NOTA, with no identical units, vastly different factions, 6-11 starting labs and dozens of unique abilities and options not found in any other mod.

A more comprehensive response can be found here.

You also seem to be suggesting that NOTA and CA should become one mod. This is unlikely to happen, as, if nothing else, we have very different design goals. The NOTA team are free to contribute to CA though, and NOTA has used some CA content.

[123vtemp]

I'm not sure who that came across.

NOTA and CA are completely different (game play). CA is fast pace and simple while NOTA is slow to move through the development stages, and very complex.

In nota to be successful you need land [often kbots, and veh], air force, a ground based air support, and if there is sea a navy, and probably hovers to. to go to tech t2 of any thing you first must construct a tower of that unit type, making the choice to build such a tower very important.

In NOTA the unit classes are more clearly defined causing the use of the right unit to be more valuable.

In CA u can spam almost any thing and it can hold up in battle [that is an exaggeration] every thing will hit air and do noticeable damage.
You do not need to support valuable units, as they are self contained owning machines. I explained else where how it is silly that a powerful unit have an anti spam gun, because it is then no longer vulnerable to spam, and it does not need supporting units to protect it. In CA u can spam a unit such as the Sumo and the only thing u may need is aa, but now all lasers shoot air so u may not even need much aa.

Yes that is very complex /: rofl
[that is about as opposite of complex as you could go]

Yes CA has more things under development and is producing a lot mare than NOTA, but i was always referring to the game play of the two mods, nothing else.

I like and play both mods effectively. I have solid grounds from which to make such an observation.

[123vtemp]

It would be nice if sub cons could build towers, else if u lose all land, you can never com back.
But then again, perhaps u should just hold on to your land better.
And hover cons do build towers.

[123vtemp]

This is a rushed post so here:
This was a PM, and is not edited at all.

123vtemp

Message subject: Re: About the tutorial
Folder: Sent messages
Combat that is not a quick explanation lol

Feel free to edit this, as it is far more that I really had intended to be able to spend on it. I have not really had a change to read through it yet /: So, really plz do edit it, when u see some thing wrong, cuz I am sure it will not read clearly as is.
=======================================
Units and which 2 use in combat, and every other thing u need to know on an overview.

If these exist on a map u need 2 control them: Land, air and sea.

I will explain the best ways 2 control these 3 areas of battle

On Land during lvl1 unit production...
The kbot is the unit u use for the mass of ur army. It is cheap and dishes the best fire power at cost.
Kbots lack armor, hp and speed but for the cost u get the most fire power for the buck.

Vehicles are best used as lvl1 kbot support as arty has better range.
veh have greater speed
If u need a mobile army for a big map u many want a a veh. army. I would rather have 2 decent kbot armies IMO as I can push for more ground and still hold my own.
Veh also have the armor, making them better (base/deffense assault units)
veh are less cost effective than kbots when compared 2 dmg dishing power.

as lvl2 units hit the battle field lvl1 units will play a smaller roll in the big battles, but one of the neat things about NOTA is that t1 units have important uses even into the late game where as in many other mods they are a waste of M.

b4 moving on some nota land units need some credit

the peewee is a very useful unit in nota, it is cheap moves at a higher speed, sprays dmg, has decent health, and does not take out all it's mates when it is killed! THANK GOD! The ak is the same, but lazers just are not as cool (:

another ground unit u should know about are the speedy raider bots[fast, decent attack range, and decent dmg]. an opponent that micros those early game can be worse than a nightmare if u were not prepared. These raider bots are good for raiding, killing arty, snipers, and, when micro'd small groups of kbots) DO NOT try 2 kill them with FLAsHES. The Zeus, core light tanks, and units whose projectiles move fast enough 2 hit fast moving targets are good for dealing with these. the t1 ground attack planes, which are beautiful (the toad and washp) are not as cheap or easily built but are wonderful for cleaning up problems in ur base[a toad can pick of raiders ur tour wind mill farm with no colattoral dmg -side note wind is not as highly explosive (= ].

T2 units are really neat, u can see for your self.
the arm raptor IV is a work of art even it u do not play nota u need 2 see that unit.
Kbot arty on both for core, and arm are fun 2 have. Big Boom .

On 2 Air...
NOTA air is simply beautiful.
The best way and most cost efective way 2 establish air supremacy over ur air space is 2 build fighters. u use ground aa to make shure ur fighters win, it is not cost effective 2 use ground aa to hold ur air space. ground based aa will also be a deturent for enemy air craft, but does not = safty as cround attack air craft can remove small instances of aa with out much trouble.
As fighters can be lost easily over controled enemy air space is is normaly better 2 not 2 lose them in a conflict over ene,y air space, instead the more costly ground aa could be a safer option for your air force.
WARNING! only flack and shipbased high altitude missles will hit high flying planes, such as bombers. All other nifty aa is for low altitude air def. Flack is a splash unit, but also inacurate but can case premature deaths via engine fire. Once u have 8-10 flack it will become effective and enemy bomber losses will be heavy. transportable, YES TRANSPORTABLE ,static flack does the same dmg as no transportable but does have a faster turet turn rate so it is not bad for anti fighters[but still inacurate] Use a transport unit 2 carry transportable def. 2 new locations.

As ships are costly and as a result come with some aa it is a goo d idea not 2 fly near ships. torpedo bombers should be used unless in packs, but try 2 keep them from getting close 2 each other as ship aa wil deal splash 2 those poor planes of yours. If ur do not use them in packs pilots will not be comming home, nore will they tell stories of the great ships they sunk. Toads and washps can be used for hitting ships, but not subs. bombers and such will not be very effective for dealing dmg 2 ships as u will see.

There are sea based planes but land air is where it is at.

t2 air is a huge difference from t1, a pack of t2 bombers can give some t1 fighters a bad day and an eraly death as the t2 bombers have better aa and can not just a rear tail gun. Still, a good pack of t1 fighters will drops even t2 bombers. t2 fighters are better. 4-5 acuaretly placed bomb drops from a t1 or t2 stratigic bomber can eat most factories and a few more and a base constructor (tower) can turn pretty colors 2 (ie -BOOM-). about 32 bombers can kill a Com. Center and 9 stealth bomber do the same job. Stealth bombers use 200 e to use stealth. Any plane will detect stealth bombers, which means that late game the full base fighter patroles will eat any stealth bombing attempt. Wings are dandy lowflying lazer beaming monsters, but every aa can hit them /: so they can fall out of teh sky fairly quickly. They fly slow so a retreat need 2 be premeditated if the wing is 2 live [It has a lazer of death(ish) and 2 bombs] it does not have a large fuel tank so atm it is not a great deep strike unit, unless u have ur mobile airpads with u.

Yes there is fuel, and it makes for great game play. Air pads are cheap but needed. A t1 airfactory comes with a pad as part of the kit (= Woot!

NOTA dog fights and air battles are awesome, even if ur the one loseing.

the core Flying fortress is a very costly unit but a pain 2 kill as it has aa and a lot of armor and hp
Interceptors are the best way 2 kill them. If u have less than 20 t1 air craft after an ff comes ur not gunna have much of a fighter force left over. 20 t1 fighters have a decent survival chage if they attack as a group. The t2 interceptors are the way 2 kill an ff tho. Flack is not bad but an ff is flack resistant (flack will still kill it)

Napalm bombers are simply beautiful. they are fast and fly low 2 avoid a lot of aa. rocket towers or t2 rocket units can put a stop 2 them best. Napalm. Beautiful. Hit massed units with it. Hit econ farms with it. Love it. Hate it.


Sea.
but first a word on huvers. huvers are cheaper that ship so nice 2 use as they do not cost as much. huver arty is the best huver unit for fighting ships. but understand that ships are the kings of the sea not huvers.6 huver arty will pwn a destroyer an u could pull it of with 4 if ur really good, but do not count on it. A huver transport will CARRY a MOHO builder. this is important as moho builders are very important units in nota and they are as slow as ever.

ships are huge investments and as a result a huge impact on the filed of battle losing sea and then haveing enemy navaly bombardments is not fun and a game ender. If there is sea on the map U WANT IT. As a ship is valuable u do not want 2 lose ur first ship so whtch it closely, but do not be afraid 2 use it cuz u just may catch ur enemy with his pants down. If an aa ship can park in ur harbor u can say good bye 2 ur air supremacy and then u've got a problem.
The destroyers is really teh runt of the ship family but it's radar and sonar are huge. It has the most torpedoes of any ship(4 2 on each side), yet it's hp is a draw back.
the curser is a great all purpse ship , I envy the core's the best ship you could dream up. Crusers have efectively 2 torpedoes a nice set of guns, decent range, and a small sonar radius (last I cheaked)
faction sip difrences
Arm ships are more single purposed and thus cost a lot less as they tipicaly have less aa, and are just not as much. Core ships tipicaly lack the range of the arm ships but do have more hp and are backing a more al purpose bite. an arm missle ship is much smaller but costs half the price. a core missle ship packs a heavy cruser gun battery and weapons to boot. A player who keeps his wallet in mind woudl prefer the arm missle ship as he can get more missle bang for the buck, but he will need 2 def his ship where as the core ship can dish some seriouse dmg 2 all units (but not subs)
The core battel cruser is a floating pile of HP where as the arm battle cruser has half the HP, but can lay into his enemies with his massive long ranged guns.

Subs carry a lot of fire power; 3 unguided 1 guied torpedos, but have little hp and can be eaten with ease. subs van drop a lot of hur b4 torpedos reach them and if they are lucky they can even live. 2 lucky subs can kill a destroyer, but the same destroyer on a luckey day could also kill both subs in the same exchange.

an anti ship gun is a powerful weapon, but air can nock it out with some ease, so keep air supreamacy.
a birtha can be built by a commander, a def, tower or the tower which can build all t2 and t3 structures. birtha's have a good range for controle over sea.

heavy longrange weapons are a great way 2 back ur sea effort, and a way 2 hold it.

Deffence...
NOTA def. units are costly but very effective. Spending the M can be a set back, but if it was well chosen it will surve u well.u will find that nota does not have indestructabke supper units if u ur enemy hasn't the def, or aa removing large problems is posible. a nuke cannon, nuking silo, bitha, pinoco, orbital lazer are all kill able.

Tactics.
Keeping ur army alive and microing u lines during confrontation is part of the game. A well lead army can achieve wonders. Raiding/attacking econ is big as NOTA econ is an investment. ground and mex are more valuable in nota than other mods. Doing raids and not just one all out attack will help u gain the upper had so u can make that heavy attack.

learning units abilities and weaknesses, and how 2 exploit them, as in NOTA range is by far not the most promenant exploitation, but only one of them. these exploitations in NOTA are a huge part of the fun, not to mention the complexity of the battle field.

Factors:
cloaking, rate of fire, accuracy, armor classes, decloaking range area of effect, build time(which decides what is practical 2 produce), speed turn rate, turret turn rate, speed, cost vs #s and fire power, deployment, energy for construction 2 other units, dmg, range,and more

there are three armor classes light,medium and heavy
units do different dmg 2 the different armor classes as u would expect.

Econ.
econ is costly in nota which means using mms (metal makers) is not a way 2 get a heavy econ rolling. if e comes 2 you easily than use the mms, but th e production of unit will get u a lot further than throwing ur $$ into a bunch of fusions heavy econ building cost a lot of M and take time 2 build. getting mohos is a huge deal, and it costs u nearly 5000 M 2 get 2 ur first moho up and running. This means stat econs rise more steadily and are of huge value. moho s have more hp as they do cos a lot.
In nota wind does not have a huge explosion so u do not have 2 be as afraid 2 use it.

Starting, building and teching
After ur first five or more mex u can support a factory.
Factories can not be assisted in nota if u want a larger unit production u can build another factory. In nota diversity is very important as a result u would have a number of factories early on perhaps even b4 u could keep them all running at ful production. Building an air factory b4 going 2 t2 is often a wise idea. NOTA factories can increase and decrease their production speed so as not 2 consume resources or build as quickly, depending on ur desires.
once u have 3+ or so factories u might think of going to t2 depending on how the game is going. as u get a feel for the game u will know when adn if u want 2 tech. The tech 2 units are much more than the t1 units but also cost a good deal more so there will be many more t1 units than t2 units.

Introduction to NOTA by "123v[NOTA]" (I am "123vtemp" in the spring message board)
when ur on the TASClient u can type "j #nota" to see who is on for a game.
Also right clicking the MSG window in any channel will let u set it 2 auto join when u long on to spring.
GL and HF
Sent at: 19 May 2008, 06:15

[Albatross]

So, can anyone suggest any good maps to play NOTA on? Having a lan in a week or so, I was thinking altored earth might be good for a 4-5 player free for all but does anyone else have any suggestions?

[Thor]

Fantastic writeup 123v and a great summary of how nota plays.


Albatross, I have not tried nota on altored earth but here are some of my favorite maps: aaviko, battle range, expanded tropics, giant hills and valleys, greenhaven, plains and passes, real mars, small supreme islands, small supreme battlefield dry, tempest, and the rock.

The maps I would recommend not playing are those with small chokepoints and/or lots of vertical cliffs, like altored divide, tabula, or small supreme battlefield.

[Albatross]

Cheers,
Just checked out High and Low Redux, good fun against the AI.
Found a remake of Seven Islands, which is pretty perfect for what I had in mind, it's an old favourite from the days of TA, the islands managed to be far enough away from each other to force players to rely on seiges rather than artillary pounding. We always did prefer 3 hours plus games.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

nicest explosions of any mod ever

[123vtemp]

Last I checked the new seven Islands is a complete fail. It came no where near to what I remember form TA cuz that old map was great, even tho it was a Metal Map.

Some day the explosions will not be the best, but the well designed game play will always be a huge reason to play NOTA for years.


I took a second to see if I could try to fix the arty problem, but I have had no luck :/

The arm Command Tanks still does not fill its role as a skirmish tank very well. Compare it to the core t1 reaper, and the ARM t2 anti armor skirmish tank is a ROFL. It also has aa guns which do nothing. Either they should be removed or do enough to be called a very light aa turret.
It does not have aoe, and it can not compete with the other tanks (all 3 heavy tanks). The fido, is the far superior skirmish unit. The Command tank has 2 little to offer atm, or so it appears.

[Totbuae]

Ah, the field "command" tank, it has always puzzled me why it's called a command tank. What's commandy (or is it commanding or maybe command-like) about it?

I know that it outranges most tanks (not sure if it outranges Golies), that it has a railgun which I'm assuming makes it more effective against heavy armor and that it has light AA in the form of an anti-air machinegun. I see it as providing some anti-tank support for Bulldogs and Stumpies but that would make it a support tank rather than a command tank.

Maybe to make it feel more like a command unit it could have radar and cloak detection? Maybe give it a nanolathe and have it be able to repair and/or reclaim and/or capture and/or rez? (rez?!, nah, that's a Core thing). Perhaps even make it able to build some stuff (simple stuff like DT's and/or mines and/or transportable LLT's and/or PeeWees and/or Fleas).

P.S. Lots of "and/or" in this post, huh?

[Thor]

The description "field/command tank" simply referred to the fact that there is a chance you will get a command version of the tank which has a double barreled gun. It was a confusing description which is why it was simplified to skirmish tank. They are very similar to fidos, and overall it is true that fido's are a better deal for cost. However, unlike fidos they are in medium armor class which can make a significant difference vs. certain units, including the goliath's explosive plasma. The AA machine gun was improved a bit last version. It's not significant but it is far from useless. Comparing it to the reaper is meaningless as they fulfill absolutely different roles. Reapers are heavy tanks, greyhounds are skirmish. Like fido's, they outrange even goliaths and do full damage to heavy armor. Given time they can whittle down an army without taking much if any damage.

[123vtemp]

Of course Thor is right, but if you can build a pack of command tanks, you could have accomplished a lot more else where with the same M.

[123vtemp]

If we had a minimum range option for arty an perhaps kbot arty it would be a valuable idea. Thus arty could constantly fire and not shoot targets which have mingled with your force. This would be most helpful in bug games. Then you could have peewee / zeus / Pyro hoard and use arty to take out the targets at range, but not inflict splash dmg on your army.

[Guessmyname]

minimum range can be done using a firearc pointing directly upwards (with the angle over 180 degrees) in theory. Not actually tried it though.

[123vtemp]

hmmm

my initial intension was that a player could change them minimum range to the setting he would need as the game changed. As we have build speed and damage receivable till a return for repairs, having one for units minimum range would help you army to function as you like.

[Totbuae]

Thor, I just noticed that the Arm shipyard has 500 metal and 500 energy storage while the Core shipyard doesn't. Is this intended or is it an oversight?

[Totbuae]

I hate to be the one to reopen this can of worms but T1 artillery seems a little bit too inaccurate on high trajectory. I just had a game where a 15 piece artillery battery of Lugers had to fire 3 salvos to take out one transportable LLT (that's 45 shots, 3 connected and 42 missed). I understand this is to keep T1 arty from being too uber but it somehow feels a little bit odd.

As it is now, Lugers/Pillagers are only good against area targets (troop concentrations, squares of solars/windgens) but very ineffective against point targets (LLTs, HLTs, even factories). Is this how they're intended to function? I'd rather have them be less spammable (increased build time) but more effective. If doing so would have adverse effects on gameplay which I haven't considered then I guess I can make do with current arty.

P.S. The Arm Marky (radar KBOT) is also missing upright=1.

[Thor]

I'm not sure I understand quite what you mean with the minimum range thing, 123v. There is no good way to do minimum range anyway though, for anything other than ships, since they would be unable to fire when shooting down from higher elevation. It works fine for ships since they are always at the same elevation.

The lack of storage on the core shipyard is unintended, thanks for reporting.

As for the artillery, it is true that they are quite inaccurate. I do however think they are balanced overall as they are. An increase in accuracy would have to be accompanied with an increase in cost or buildtime as you suggested. I'm not necessarily against the idea.

[Thor]

v1.45 released: http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1118

It's a very minor release with only bug fixes and a couple balance changes.

There's also a new version of spacebugs: http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1120

For those who haven't seen it, spacebugs is like CA's chicken gametype, but with bugs that come from space on comets.