NOTA 1.82

[Totbuae]

Well, 1v0ry_k1ng, that big arty tower will become priority one to every enemy unit on the map the second it fires and if you don't have direct combat units (and the skill to make them count) to repel the unavoidable onslaught then you would've just wasted metal on that arty tower.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for direct frontal assaults but sometimes they just won't work (e.g., you're fighting an opponent who is very adept at defense and uses static defenses and mobile units combined). In this situation capable arty is the easiest way to break what could easily become a stalemate.

Once again, I'm completely satisfied with arty in NOTA, I'm not advocating for some uber arty piece which will end the game all by itself but I also don't want arty which is ONLY good against static defenses. Arty should be able to provide some indirect fire support in mobile unit to unit combat, in my humble opinion (current NOTA arty does this well). Of course, if left unguarded/undefended/unescorted then arty should always be fed a healthy dose of pwnage by direct combat mobile units.

On a different note, Thor, now that light laser tower shots travel twice as fast, the beams are twice as long so you might want to adjust the beam duration. The increased shot speed is also allowing light laser towers to tag planes every once in a while; I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just calling your attention to it.

[Thor]

The tracker is indeed intended to stay cloaked while firing. Moving any radar unit within about 1/4 of the max radar range now reveals cloaked units. I have no idea why the spy kbot's name is capitalized.

I think having powerful arty can make the game more interesting, as it can force you to make choices like do you slow down your army to bring arty with them, or move on without it, and encourages flanking maneuvers, etc.

[Thor]

version 1.44 released.

http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1073

Changelog:

-Added "Tracker" Infiltrator Kbot for CORE
-Added Spy kbot for ARM
-Added Battle Commander for Arm
-Added Floating Metal Extractors, built by bases and hovercraft
-Added Deployment and Commander Start mod options
-Commanders are now built at a warp gate
-Units with radar can now detect cloaked units at medium-to-close range
-Pelicans much faster in water; AA improved; laser damage/sec reduced; hp slightly reduced
-Gimps can climb slopes; damage/sec significantly increased; hp slightly reduced; now medium armor
-Nuclear Missile Silo metal cost and buildtime reduced 50%
-Cruiser, Battlecruiser, and Battleship overall firepower decreased 5%
-Missile Ship range decreased from 2600 to 2400; minimum range slightly decreased
-Bulldog firepower significantly increased
-Sniper damage, reload time decreased; not stealth when moving; decloak radius decreased
-Morty death explosion size reduced
-Mobile Artillery have much more range while in high trajectory mode; fire larger plasma shells
-Rocket Box damage to heavy armor decreased to 50%
-Hellfish drop a single powerful bomb instead of two
-Arm Drone firepower decreased
-Arm Spider range, speed increased
-Moho Engineers are now all terrain
-Moho Mine metal cost decreased 30%
-Tidal Generator metal cost increased 15%
-Radar Tower cost increased 20%
-LLT laser velocity increased ~100%
-Machine Gun velocity increased 43%
-Vulcan and Buzzsaw cost decreased 30%
-Vulcan energy cost to fire decreased 50%
-Black Lilly decloak radius decreased; does not decloak to fire; buildtime increased
-Stealth Fighter decloak radius decreased
-Toadfoot damage to ships lowered 25%
-Flying Wing hitpoints increased 5%; damage to buildings and ships increased ~7%
-Torpedo Bomber cost reduced 5%
-Commanders are now stealth while cloaked
-Heavy unit death explosion less deadly to other heavies.
-Crawling Bomb and landmine cost decreased
-Viper hitpoints slightly reduced
-Maverick autoheal improved
-Greyhound flank damage reduced
-Flea weapon changed back to regular laser
-Core Truck cheaper
-Flak slightly more accurate
-Fixed build menus loading slow
-Changed aircraft buildpictures to make numbers easier to see
-Fixed solar collectors showing up as idle builders

[Totbuae]

I think having powerful arty can make the game more interesting, as it can force you to make choices like do you slow down your army to bring arty with them, or move on without it, and encourages flanking maneuvers, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree. Great minds do think alike, huh Thor?

[MadRat]

You're a busy beaver, Thor. KUTGW

[123vtemp]

The ongoing debate about artillery has prompted the following, which now that I look at it; I find it sad that I would think it even needs to be said. :/

The idea behind arty is that is has range, and that u get a big gun for the least amount of cost; no armor, no mobility.

Prose:
You're safely out of range.
You have a powerful weapon.
You saved money.

Cons;
You saved money by not giving it any armament/protection.
You can not hit targets as well because u are further way.
You lack mobility.

Those are facts. I would think they would explain all the confusions we are having about arty.

Artillery will take longer to kill a target, than a direct assault, but the arty does not take dmg 2 deal dmg.

Because it is costly 2 surround a gun with armor, the typical arty piece is vulnerable to attack but can be produced in much higher quantities. For this reason, provided it is not attacked it can do the same job with out the cost of armament. That is why it is common on the battlefield.

Armored guns are almost more of an elite group due to their high cost for armament, and mobile ability.

Because mobility is such a large factor to usability/vulnerably,
the inexpensive arty unit is often not a viable unit 2 cope with many situations.

For the same reason unarmored long range guns(arty) are produced, light anti armor guns[anti tank guns] have been produced.

[123vtemp]

I was thinking about the rocket box and how it has no HP, but costs nearly as much as a t2 heavy tank. if it is no longer as effective, should it cost so much? I think a t2 heavy tank may far better suited unit for the same job [at that price]!

I remember building them 2 defeat t2 assault (as a last ditch def.)

-they now do 50% less dmg to heavy armor.

As they are inaccurate they were only good for hitting slow moving targets [t2 tanks and slow assault bots], but now they do 50% less dmg 2 heavy units.
So now with no HP and the new distance for arty, I wonder it they have a purpose on the battle field

[Thor]

I agree with your overall analysis of artillery, but disagree about the rocket box not being effective.

The rocket box has high range, is transportable, and does very good dmg/sec, especially vs. slow or massed units. The fact that it does less to heavy is offset by hitting them a lot more. To put it in perspective, a plasma cannon does 130 dps, while a single rocket box theoretically does 220, although of course it misses a lot so the actual dps is probably about the same as the plasma cannon. However you can get three boxes for the price of one cannon, and they are transportable. Seems like a good deal to me.

[123vtemp]

I removed this post as I realized a mistake.
(it commented about the box vs new arty range/dmg)

[overkill]

The arty range buff was High trej only, right? Does high trej still have its accuracy penalty?

[123vtemp]

Thor, there are a lot of people who join the NOTA channel. It would be wise if the NOTA channel saying the following:
"Please set the NOTA channel to auto join by right clicking the msg window. This will make it easier for games to be formed."

Many still do not know this. And others do not realize the value of knowing if other players are on.
Giving a link 2 this message board is a good idea 2.

[Thor]

The arty range buff was High trej only, right? Does high trej still have its accuracy penalty?

Yes, high trajectory is less accurate

Thor, there are a lot of people who join the NOTA channel. It would be wise if the NOTA channel saying the following:
"Please set the NOTA channel to auto join by right clicking the msg window. This will make it easier for games to be formed."

Many still do not know this. And others do not realize the value of knowing if other players are on.
Giving a link 2 this message board is a good idea 2.

Good idea, I will do that.

[Thor]

About the rocket box, it was never intended to be the main defense unit for holding back full-scale enemy assaults - that is what plasma batteries are for. Is the rocket box a little less useful now that artillery has more range? Sure, as are all defenses. But the difference is not that great. Boxes were already quite easy to destroy with artillery before the range increase provided the box was not on higher elevation. And the inaccuracy of artillery at max range ensures you have time to pull back the boxes before they can be destroyed, a valuable option that static defenses do not have. Ultimately boxes fulfill a niche different from any other unit in the game, including sabot, as a unit with high, cheap firepower that can be quickly placed anywhere on the map your transports can safely reach, whether defending your own base, holding critical mountaintops, or dropped in the back of your enemies' base. I don't think the artillery range changes that.

[overkill]

Nah, i like the change, i hated uber boxes. They still last a while on hills and such.

[Thor]

Also, to clarify, the box damage to heavy armor was decreased to 50% (from 80%), not by 50%. Sorry for the confusion.

edit: although I guess the difference is only like 10% anyway, so whatever.

[123vtemp]

FYI:

[4:25:30 AM] <123v[NOTA]> http://www.darkstars.co.uk/downloads/vi ... 3.sd7&dl=1
[4:25:50 AM] <Sammael[CA]> thank God
[4:25:56 AM] <Sammael[CA]> i couldn't use megaupload
[4:26:00 AM] <123v[NOTA]> yeah
[4:26:01 AM] <omygod> yes
[4:26:02 AM] <omygod> XD

(that was a link 2 v1.03 bugs at DS)

[123vtemp]

AF has posted an interesting statement:
http://www.darkstars.co.uk/2008/a-primary-mod-flip/

As people grow tired of sam, old, same old[BA]
There needs to be a good replacement.
I see a problem with how it is turning.

Alone, CA does not fill the shoes of Ba. CA is a faster pace and simpler mod than BA, causing it's games to be shorter. NOTA would do well to take up the slack as it can offer the possibility for longer games that do not reach the pinnacle of development, losing excitement.
NOTA ha the complexity to keep a player's interest for years, where as a mod which does not have as much to it will be fun to play and a better choice for just a good little game, but will not by itself keep teh player base interested for a lengthy period of time.
NOTA games can last as little as five minuets and as long as 1:30.

CA + NOTA offer both the quick and enjoyable game with the long lasting interest of a game that has enough to it to keep one's enthusiasm for ages. The two together will not only do a better job than BA, but they will also provide more enjoyable game play/ strategic gam play, which creates more interesting game play.

NOTA needs to make itself available if it is to become a mod with a decent following. Atm NOTA is mostly only played by go-getters and people who have the attention span/determination to actually learn a sophisticated mod, not to mention ability to wait for a game to fill.

If NOTA had a few hosts that would do it wonders. because it is as sophisticated as it is players can not pick it up right away as they can BA. That and not having a player base big enough for people to easily join in games is the biggest challenge for NOTA to overcome.

NOTA missions should help people become familiar and be a good fish bait to get people started. we could use some better missions for introductory purposes. And I think that I would be interested in pursuing that. I also talked to a dev a month ago who was wanting to do a whole line of missions with NOTA. (=

[Fulano]

I just gotta say that I recently started playing NOTA and it has become my favorite mod so far! I love the balance in the game, especially how artillery is tougher. Everything just seems to fit a lot better in this mod. My only problem with it is finding large enough maps to play on, since before I played it most of the maps I had downloaded were under 12x12. :)

Great job on the mod and great job at updating it regularly!

[123vtemp]

amen,
and by the way there are a lot of great NOTA maps (=

[123vtemp]

CA has given Core rez and arm capture

Capture is valuable because of stun bombers/fighters/units.
In CA stun is very effective, making it possible to stun t3, kid nap it with a trans, and then capture it while it is still being stunned.

My point; rez is very good, allowing core to get both arm and core units, while atm arm only can reclaim, and walk faster. -and speed is a good thing! But how about some thing more?


oh and should t2 trans ports cost less? or should they have more hp?
they cost the same or more than a valuable land unit, and are not worth the same in M, but have the valuable speed. still high cost and low hp :/

Then again my comment may make them OP so make ur own decision.

And the arty problem of course. /: Arty will not close range to fire with low trajectory if it has a larger high trajectory range. It will stay-put thinking it can shoot even tho the target is not in low trajectory range.

When it is possible to deal with this would we want ships to close range till all guns could shoot, or say a widget that let u decide whether to have the unit close ground till x weapon ranges are exploitable. The widget would allow for you to have well behaved units (=.

I posted this on the CA site in case they had any thoughts about it.
Post: http://trac.caspring.org/discussion/1/127