Transparency & Regulation

[tombom]

Lol. The people who are mad are probably the people who should be monitored.

nobody is so bad on spring they need to be monitored outside #main.

[SwiftSpear]

We already can't abide by the censorship laws of some countries. Frankly, the fact that "countries" have a law against something is irrelevant. We aren't centered in "countries". The only jurisdiction relevant to us AFAIK is Sweden.

I'm not sure if there are any conflicts with swedish law, I'm not a lawyer. AFAIK we are responsible to ensure our servers aren't used for illegal transactions, for example, urianium or child porn, and for that reason alone we log, but honestly, we never use the vast majority of our logs for anything. The only logs that are checked regularly are #main, and if you don't like being logged in #main then you can soak your head cause I don't care. Very rarely if a channel admin complains of a user harassing their channel we browse those logs to see if their complaint is valid (since we have rules against harassment). But that can be done if channel admins set their channels up to be logged through uberserver too, so it doesn't really need to be a default function.

[Neddie]

Lol. The people who are mad are probably the people who should be monitored.

nobody is so bad on spring they need to be monitored outside #main.

I beg to differ, having tried to mitigate the fallout from work conducted with your collusion from channels such as #smug.

If somebody is planning trolling or passing illegal and distasteful content through the server, I will do anything in my power to control that.

[tombom]

Lol. The people who are mad are probably the people who should be monitored.

nobody is so bad on spring they need to be monitored outside #main.

I beg to differ, having tried to mitigate the fallout from work conducted with your collusion from channels such as #smug.

If somebody is planning trolling or passing illegal and distasteful content through the server, I will do anything in my power to control that.

i seriously can't imagine what you're referring to

[SwiftSpear]

Well... Basically the statement that there's never moderation work to do outside of #main is just false... The question is, weather the work requires logs of every channel.

Like neddie says, if illegal or just flat out malicious stuff is going on we'll do everything we can to stop it. Meh, I'd be more inclined to just add a warning that all channels are being logged when a user logs in, as opposed to seriously changing the system we currently have. We generally don't do much with the logs, but they have a couple times been useful in the past, and I don't really want to risk something big happening and rescinding it all.

[smoth]

or just add it to the user agreement

[Forboding Angel]

or just add it to the user agreement

I agree, just add it to the eula.

If they need to say things that they don't want logged, maybe they should set up a teamspeak server, mmk?

[smoth]

nig... he he

[SwiftSpear]

We already have it in the eula... the complaint is that in some jurisdictions you need to actively make a user aware as well. That sounds sensible enough to me, and realistically... it acts as a preventative as well having that tickling reminder there... but I really don't know if there's even the slightest real legal responsibility.

A: Virtually every online communication center is fully logged, virtually never including any warning of such, and I've never actually heard of a legal case being brought up against any of them unless they sold or leaked those logs wrongfully.
B: AFAIK, the only jurisdiction we need to be concerned about is Sweden. Your jurisdiction provides you no protection against any act we take while you're on our servers. The only recourse anyone has against us would be forcing our servers down, and the only authority that will do that is the swedish legal system, but they won't do that unless their law agrees with the complaint. Although admittedly I know virtually nothing about swedish privacy law.
C: Damages rewarded in cases of privacy violation are responsive to either profit on the part of the offender being gained, or damages being caused. We're a non profit organization, and we don't use our logs for the most part... They aren't publically available, they aren't transmitted to your friends, family, or employer, they are only really ever read if we need to verify a complaint about something. Posting something sensitive on spring isn't the smartest thing you can do, but there's still a very very small chance anyone will even ever see it, and unless it's a direct threat to us, at worst we'll probably giggle for a while.

[lurker]

As a user you agree to any information you have entered
above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party
without your consent administrators and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking
attempt that may lead to the data being compromised. Passwords are sent and stored in
encoded form. Any personal information such as personal statistics will be kept privately and will
not be disclosed to any third party.

Are you sure 'information you have entered above' applies to any data sent to the server ever? Even if it does, that is a disgusting tactic to say 'Oh, it's in the eula, didn't you read it and think of every possible interpretation that ends up with you on the poor end?'. For all intents and purposes, it is not in the eula at present.

[AF]

Any legal attempt to defend yourselves with a EULA such as that would end up as a laughing stock. Definitively state that channels are logged or quit saying its in the EULA.

And most people are unaware of their chat activities being logged by the server, I for one cant think of any chat that's logged server side aside from the TASServer running on this server.

[Neddie]

I think I made a partial rewrite of the EULA a few months back. If somebody will give me the newest version, I can revise it and resubmit for greater clarity.

[Peet]

The link is given every time you log in

[Neddie]

I don't see it anywhere...

[Peet]

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late edit: Oh and FWIW, searchlog.php in the web interface is broken so none of us can see it anyway