NOTA 1.82

[pintle]

Right now for the micro people we have XTA

HELL YEAH SEAKING

Fixed

more along the lines of what no doubt noruas was thinking

[Neddie]

No offense, but I watch most of the games on my hosts, and with the average CPU lag I know you guys aren't microing much aside from commanders and air transports.

[pintle]

yeah... [sorry to further derail nota thread] Its not like 90% of small confrontations in xta are about individual unit micro: com repairing skirmish units, blocking line of fire to damaged retreating units, using com as an anti-melee-dps unit around your firebase... (none of these things are standard play in BA/CA) whilst also playing the conventional *A rts game (maek solar//spaem flash!11), and the increased worth of each unit relative to their b/ca counterpart that is made implicit by the different hp/dps ratio couldn't possibly imply that microing individual units is exponentially more rewarding than a similar game with more units in play...

Wtf do you mean microing air transports? You know its consensus in XTA that air drop is not greatly viable due to the cost/build time of atlas, and the abundance of aa from the mid-game onwards. Which games are you watching?

-----

Back on topic: would it be feasible (using mod options) to make a version of NOTA where you start with a commander as opposed to the command centre?

[Noruas]

No offense, but I watch most of the games on my hosts, and with the average CPU lag I know you guys aren't microing much aside from commanders and air transports.

OKay Okay, you got me, I am lazy, i micro nothing, thats my unique playing style, rush my flash into baes.

[Otherside]

rofl uve never played CA then

com repair outlaw push is very common as well as leveler slasher repair push and other com or con + repair pushing just because a game is faster dusnt mean theres less micro...

i use con vehs as shields to so those tactics exist.. they arent XTA exclusive and they are used...

and im sure i can list some stuff u cant do in XTA

like cloak push :]

[Decimator]

Heh, now you guys are arguing about which mod has the most micro in the thread for one of the most macro-based mods.

This amuses me.

[overkill]

Heh, now you guys are arguing about which mod has the most micro in the thread for one of the most macro-based mods.

This amuses me.

QFT

[Decimator]

What does everyone think about the morty? I've heard that a nerf was planned, though I'm not sure that's a good idea.

[overkill]

IMO, it should be fine. but I worry about it just being nerfed 'cause it is more usefull than veh arty, that might not be the best thing...

[ironized]

i for one love odity's

they are awesome

[Rubenes]

Say guys, I am planning to make a better tutorial for NOTA than the one I uploaded to SpringReplays. What should be the most important things I should cover in the tutorial? I have some basic ideas here:

- Kbot = infantry idea (they are inferior to tanks, but cheaper. Not sure about ARM)
- Economy differences (Moho Engineer)
- Teching (Level 2 constructor)
- Shipyard differences
- Superweapons
- Constructors

Tell me if I need to cover anything more in this tutorial.

Rubenes

[overkill]

Kbots are by no means not as good as tanks, they are better fighters imo, but they are slow and frail.

IMO you should make the eco section about expanding and making energy, mms really arent the way to go in nota.

state the criteria needed to tech, i would say ~25 metal income before teching.

also be sure to add that you need mutiple facs.

[Thor]

kbots are more cost efficient than tanks while being slower and weaker as overkill said. Excluding the big tech 2 kbots, they also all have light armor, which means they get chewed up by laser towers and explosive plasma (guardians, levelers, goliaths, etc.) Basically, they are superior to vehicles in a situation where speed is not too important and where you are not assaulting defenses. Another thing to note is that while they are more cost-effective than vehicles, they are also more energy intensive to build, so that can be a factor in choosing your tech at the beginning of the game, when energy is more scarce. Also their con units are better than vehicles. (farks for arm, necros for core)

Vehicles are intended to have better arty than kbots, as that makes sense and is in line with their intended roles (vehicles as better assault units, kbots better combat units). Morties and snipers are both superior to vehicle artillery in the current version, as they can fire accurately while moving and are harder to kill while doing about the same damage as artillery. (snipers do less but then they have stealth and cloak) This means that they are as good as vehicle arty for breaking defenses or forcing an engagement, while being far superior in their ability to actually kill units without being overrun, thanks to their better moving accuracy.

[Decimator]

With that in mind, it would seem to me that vehicle artillery needs a buff more than morties need a nerf.

[overkill]

IMO, the veh arty should have upped damage, but blow up bigger to prevent arty spam. this would make them more usefull but a higher priority to defend.

[Thor]

I agree, firepower on the core vehicle arty probably should be improved. Arm arty is fine imo. I dislike the idea of larger death explosions as once he is aware of it, a good player can just keep them seperated. They're already plenty vulnerable to air anyway.

[overkill]

True, but that means he wont spam them like they're flash and pwn everything (especialy kbots) when covered by a few stumpys/raiders, panther (enemy charges right in under the impression you arty is not guarded)/ reaper, and storms and zues/pyro. arty is only valnerable to air if the opponent doesnt have fighters, or mass crashers (both very common imo). i think making them pop like reapers and damaging each other would reduce the retarded arty spam. IMO arty shouldnt be a spam unit, it should be a support unit that you have to think stretegically to use effectivly. IE not clumping them with kbots, or having them close.

[Totbuae]

I humbly request that any artillery issues be solved without the use of the "nerf stick". Balance by nerfing quickly leads to a lineup of underpowered and barely usable units which is no fun in my humble opinion.

On the other hand, I have no problems with artillery being one of the most used ground combat units (and why shouldn't it? it has the range and firepower to make it a very effective option). If I remember correctly, artillery has been historically referred to as "the kings of battle" due to its potential to inflict disproportionate amounts of losses on the enemy.

So long as arty cannot do the job of tanks and that there are ways to counter it (and keep in mind that one of the counters for arty is more arty, i.e., counter battery fire) then I say let arty rule supreme.

P.S. Here's a crazy idea, pick one or two T1 units from each side and make them cloakable and stealth so that they can sneak up on arty and take it out.

[Guessmyname]

P.S. Here's a crazy idea, pick one or two T1 units from each side and make them cloakable and stealth so that they can sneak up on arty and take it out.

Snipers. 'Nuff said.

[123vtemp]

Rubenes,
you forgot about air! If a new player does not know how to handle air, which is awesome! he could have a very bad day and as in one case get fed up with NOTA. Prompt me and i can elaborate in depth (there is much to say). Oh and econ... econ is just more expensive in nota, which prevents the high stakes econ we see in the other mods where a player will have a +400 M a sec as Numpty will get by 45 min in. that focus on the game really ruins the true joy that could be had. mms are sill practical in NOTA but should only be done when u have sources of E which do not cost high amounts of M. All econ is more costly in NOTA making econ more valuable and not as easy to acquire, which creates more strategic games.
If ur just introducing the lay out perhaps I or Thor should explain how the warfare works, which is what makes NOTA such a wonderful mod.

About the Morty, and Arty...
I believe that Decimator is right about the morty. I never found it to have enough dmg to be overpowered. It is still weak, does not have a large aoe where as arty does and it does take a longer time 2 produce.

I agree with Overkill. An arty buff would not be a bad idea, as both core and arm arty do not see very effective applications even on the T1 battle field, let alone their inability to deal dmg 2 heavier armored units.
The artillery's poor maneuverability, low hp and currently low rate of fire + poor dmg 2 moving or heavy units atm takes care of any of the reasons a player would want 2 use them.

Currently it would appear that the arty rate of fire is to slow and that it does not have a very large weapon range, which for the cost is bearable until it gets out ranged [not really but it can not out range t2 easily] by t2 units
The core arty is not as effective as the arm because it does even less dmg to heavier armor. Aside from that both arm dps and core arty are close with core being 1/7 less dps.

Arty is hardly worth building atm and a buff would not hurt. A slight cost increase might be needed if the buff is a decent one. (a decent buff would not improve range cuz that would offset the balance between it and defences, so rather a fix to the dmg should take care of that, thus it's low hp would make it vulnerable to things is should not be owning)

The morty is a unit worth its investment, as i should hope all units are, and I fear a nerf would not have good results. The morty does not have a sever reduction to dmg dealt to heavier units perhaps arty should not have such a harsh heavy armor dmg reduction.


Totbuae, and ur anti arty unit,
In NOTA v1.44 ur cloaking unit may become a new NOTA unit. Something like the DarkTemplar is StarCraft. If Thor does successfully add this unit, that will be interesting. Tbh I don't know what to say.

Snipers. 'Nuff said.

Yes, but for thier cost their presence on the battle field should make a better impact. They have some thing close 2 a 30 sec reload and their 900 dmg shot can only kill cheap t1 vehicle and kbot units I find them in this way only good as stealthy arty[ie taking out a llt or box'o death] and not for dealing dgm. I would think that the sniper should be a unit worth building for the field and not just a unit for small missions. Thus arm would have a valuable t1 weapon as the morty is valuable to the core, and should so remain.

T2 arty...
Should the heavy rocket arty take out gols and bulldogs in one hit?
if so how is that compared 2 the cost of the oddity or galacticus which both cost around 4000 while the missile arty is around 2000 with less hp. This question is no simple one as the missile arty is a form of anti ship arty and nerfing it would be a huge mistake as it would no longer do it's anti ship job