Confused Newbie

[the-middleman]

I use default controls for Spring and I really like them. I rembember when I played spring the first time(not too long ago) I had a few difficulties but none that where so bad that they stopped me from playing. From all RTS that I know Spring has by far the best interface and controls. When I play other titles I really course them because navigation and giving orders is a real pain.

I dont see what Adridar means with reversed mouse buttons. I think Spring uses the most common mouse setup, except for the minimap thing which is a FEATURE and not a problem and which takes at best half an hour or one post in the forum to find out.

[tombom]

It's not at all desirable for something important like that to take 30 minutes to work out.

[Erom]

I also really dislike the middle mouse minimap setup. Sure, it's a feature - a lot of people use it. But I hate it, and wish there was another built in control scheme.

[ZellSF]

Did anyone at all read my post? There *is* another control scheme.

[Pipes]

Well i too am a confused newbie and came here searching for the answers to the exact same questions in the original post. This game really is a pain to setup and get working, and im in no way new to online gaming. Having to manualy edit the registry just to be able to use the minimap with a normal mouse button, to be honest it's not something most people would want to do. (clicking with mouse3 aka the scroll button just plain sucks, as the original post mentioned) If i didnt already know how great this game is (i played it on TEN back when it came out) i would have given up after the first hour of trying to figure stuff out. After a few hours of tinkering though it looks pretty good, but gets a 2 out of 10 for user friendliness.

[ZellSF]

What you fail to realize is, on most good mice, the middle mouse button isn't hard to press, and is in fact commonly used in applications (guess how many people middle click tabs in their browsers to close them?).

A major functionality decrease by default since you bought a shitty mouse isn't a good idea :p

It should be in the settings program though.

[Pipes]

First of all, who says i have a shitty mouse. I didnt say it was hard to press, i said it sucked having to do it. Adding functionality is all good unless it annoys the heck out of the people that you want to come and play the game. Second, there seems to be a number of people complaining about it, so there just might be a possibility that it's hurting your cause more than helping it, but feel free to blame it on everyone's shitty hardware if you think that'll solve the problem.

[ZellSF]

If it isn't hard to press, why does it suck having to press the middle mouse button?

[very_bad_soldier]

It doesnt suck, it's just very very unintuitive. You have to tell every new player manually that he has to use the middle mouse button (which lots of people normally use very rarely) to navigate on the minimap.
Another problem is when people have reconfigured their MMB to something useful in windows (e.g. doublelick), navigating on minimap doesnt work then. I have to quit my Logitech mouse driver every time if I wanna play spring to be able to use the MMB

I think the other control scheme should be default. If one really wants this behavior using the MMB he can still "hack" his registry.

[ZellSF]

Why would an inferior interface be on by default just because everyone's too used to playing StarCraft?

[Forboding Angel]

I agree with zell here.

The mmb may be unintuitive, but as it stands the interface is very powerful.

[very_bad_soldier]

Why would an inferior interface be on by default just because everyone's too used to playing StarCraft?

Correct, most of the new players get confused by it and if someone configured their mouse buttons in Windows, the interface even totally fails. I didnt say the control concept is bad but I think its a bad default setting.

We should do everything we can to please the noobs. If they get into spring they can still reconfigure the behavior of the minimap as they like.

Honestly these are exactly the arguments which stops spring from getting the user friendliness it needs to keep new players.

[AF]

Programming your command queues in lua is very powerful but we dont do it and its not something we would suggest to new players.

While the current mini-map controls are powerful, they fly in the face of every other RTS out there, and are extremely annoying. Not everyone can use it too, what do I do if Im on a laptop with no middle click button? Do you really expect me to click both at the same time? End up with lots of misclicks or orders issued and a very messy situation?

Very powerful indeed but it does more harm than good. Whats the point in uber features if they're totally impossible to use unless a community veteran tells you?

Keep the current interface but have the common RTS interface as the default so new players don't have this problem. Dont let stubborn-ness get in the way.

Really, you cant dismiss mass opinion backed by logical argument because of your own personal preference, mind you, you lot have a good track record of just doing it anyway.

[ZellSF]

what do I do if Im on a laptop with no middle click button?

Change the setting? I hardly think laptops is what a majority of Spring's players are using. I also believe there's some laptops with a middle click button anyway. No clue why laptop producers are so slow to add in an input feature that's been standard for a long time now...

Really, you cant dismiss mass opinion backed by logical argument because of your own personal preference, mind you, you lot have a good track record of just doing it anyway.

No, I have a good track record of dismissing people who say something is mass opinion just because they say so.

Keep the current interface but have the common RTS interface as the default so new players don't have this problem. Dont let stubborn-ness get in the way.

Oooh, subtle personal attacks. That's really going to prove your point.

[Forboding Angel]

Try pressing "j" or for that matter you could remap it to a different key...

[Gota]

I dont understand your resistance to any change...
We need to compromise about certain things.
Whats the point of heaving an awsome product if nobody uses it.
I dont understan the logic begind you,forb and zell.
IMO it would be best To make it an option in the installer.
If that would be possible it would be perfect and there it must be expalined in short and in a way most will understand.
But if people just press next,as that happens many times especially if the person doesnt know the game than tthe deautselection should be the regula form of mouse buttonslike in otherstrategy games.
WE must make it so that with minimal effort the user gets the best options and not the other way around.

[ZellSF]

Which is the problem, what you're suggesting isn't the best option, but an inferior one, just because you fear new players won't handle a slight learning curve to play all the games the Spring engine has.

I'm not resistant to change, but PC ports of console games have made me quite resistant to the idea of dumbing down interfaces.

Which reminds me, how are our gamepad users even going to play Spring? Something must be done!

[Tribulexrenamed]

If you don't like the interface or the key setup, change your settings.


If you need proof that popular opinion is in favor of the current setup, then I will provide.

[Adridar]

I really don't see what the big deal is....I'm a noob to Spring, I simply asked for help, I wasn't dissing the default setup, I merely was stating the things which cause playing TA: Spring to be rather difficult, after playing the original TA for 6-7 Years....so I don't get why you're all arguing.....is the middle mouse button option powerful? Don't know, don't care. Is the middle mouse button option popular? Don't know, don't care. Does my mouse suck? No, but the mouse wheel button Does. I really don't give a crap if someone thinks my mouse sucks, because I like it...however, I'm not going to go drop 40 bucks on a new mouse, just because someone thinks it sucks - good for you! nice to know you think parts of my computer suck! all you have to do, is not use my mouse!
GREAT!
Now that we have that sorted out.
Can a Mod or Admin please lock this thread, as all I wanted was some help, not to have my computer dissed, be reminded that I'm a total noob to Spring (duh?), or watch people bash each other over a difference of opinion.

[ZellSF]

Aww, but that's all the fun we have here