Bad Moderating

[Sleksa]

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ironized> what a fucking dip shit..
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[7:57:05 PM] <[t]Sefidel> dumbass
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[7:57:06 PM] <p1ngp0ng> please just THINK about it. i know its not a comong thing for you, but just try it, just once
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[7:57:13 PM] <ironized> your parents should be discussted..
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[7:57:15 PM] * Tekspdy has left #main (Quit)
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[7:57:21 PM] <Peet> Well hello there.
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[7:57:26 PM] <[t]Sefidel> stfu peet
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[7:57:28 PM] <Peet> How about we tone down the discussion a bit?
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[7:57:29 PM] <Snipawolf> Yeah, and america has a 1.7 trillion dollar debt, or was it 7 trillion, maybe 16 or something.
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[7:57:30 PM] <[t]Sefidel> go ahead and ban me
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[7:57:34 PM] * Channel message: <Peet> has muted <[t]Sefidel>

[AF]

While I have disagreed with peets moderation in the past, Id have to say in this instance I would have perma banned you once you'd started spamming #sy with swear words.

To sum it up, you asked for it, and when you got it you got worse, your meant to butter up the person who could unban you, you dont repeat what got you banned and escalate, that's just stupid. A murderer wont get out of going to prison by murdering random people in the trial.

[[TS]Lollocide]

Murder =/= swearing

OH LORD, HE SWORE, BAN FOREVER.

[Machiosabre]

I don't think its the swearing so much as the insulting people, it's not like he went "oh fuck its so hot in here" and got banned, he actively sought out people/channels and said "fuck you".
And you know that, so don't pretend its about a dirty language policy.

[rattle]

Good job with your site man, that is certainly going to get you unbanned. Grow the fuck up.

[Peet]

Wow, this discussion filled with crap about 10x faster than I thought it would.

[7:54:51 PM] <p1ngp0ng> americans are so touchy lol
[7:54:53 PM] * Xaoqu has left #main (Quit)
[7:55:10 PM] * [PWN]yabada[CA] has left #main (Quit: timeout)
[7:55:16 PM] <[LMFS]KillaKan101> i was typing :S
[7:55:19 PM] <rzbx> I don't touch myself
[7:55:20 PM] <[t]Sefidel> your mom is touchy
[7:55:29 PM] * Stevex9 has left #main (Quit)
[7:55:35 PM] * Pliskin131 has left #main (Quit)
[7:55:40 PM] * DashFox has left #main (Quit)
[7:55:40 PM] <[LMFS]KillaKan101> damn i was gunna tell him i wanted to play...
[7:56:01 PM] <p1ngp0ng> dudeWTF is a dick tho
[7:56:05 PM] <[t]Sefidel> and americans woudlnt be so touchy if people didnt run their mouthers so much
[7:56:07 PM] <[t]Sefidel> why
[7:56:12 PM] <[t]Sefidel> your the one who said americans are touchy
[7:56:14 PM] <rzbx> well, with a name like that, it is expected
[7:56:15 PM] <[t]Sefidel> your the one being a hater
[7:56:16 PM] <[LMFS]KillaKan101> just hope hes not a tabula sized one
[7:56:19 PM] * [PWN]yabada[CA] has joined #main
[7:56:24 PM] * Fire_Ganja has joined #main
[7:56:24 PM] <[t]Sefidel> STOP RUNNING YOUR MOUTH ABOUT AMERICA BEFORE WE NUKE YOUR ASS
[7:56:33 PM] <ironized> shut the fuck up
[7:56:34 PM] * 4755 has joined #main
[7:56:37 PM] <ironized> america will not nuke any one
[7:56:39 PM] <[t]Sefidel> NO U
[7:56:42 PM] <ironized> for the next year..
[7:56:44 PM] <ironized> at least
[7:56:44 PM] <rzbx> don't make me touch you all :)
[7:56:46 PM] <ironized> all you do
[7:56:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> if i was in charge iw ould
[7:56:49 PM] <p1ngp0ng> [t]Sefidel why do you think people are the way they are against americans?
[7:56:53 PM] <ironized> is fuicking complain about other people talking shit
[7:56:59 PM] <ironized> then say america will nuke them -_-
[7:57:03 PM] <[t]Sefidel> actually, we put out money where our mouth is
[7:57:04 PM] <ironized> what a fucking dip shit..
[7:57:05 PM] <[t]Sefidel> dumbass
[7:57:06 PM] <p1ngp0ng> please just THINK about it. i know its not a comong thing for you, but just try it, just once
[7:57:13 PM] <ironized> your parents should be discussted..

I was not participating in (nor reading) this discussion, which was obviously getting out of hand, nor do I care about the topic. I did not mute sefidel for his views.

He was muted for this:

[7:57:26 PM] <[t]Sefidel> stfu peet
[7:57:28 PM] <Peet> How about we tone down the discussion a bit?
[7:57:30 PM] <[t]Sefidel> go ahead and ban me

I was attempting to deal with the fact that the conversation was obviously getting out of hand, simply by making my presence known. As I was immediately met with "stfu peet", I knew that that would not be enough, and that sefidel was forming the primary problem of the situation. So I muted him (for less than a day IIRC), and that would have been that.

However, this occurred immediately afterward:

[7:57:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> YOUR A FUCKING NIGGER BITCH
[7:57:51 PM] <[t]Sefidel> I HOPE SOMEONE STABS YOU
[7:57:54 PM] <Peet> So you really want that ban eh?
[7:57:59 PM] <[t]Sefidel> YOU DUMB PIECE OF SHIT COCK SUCKER
[7:58:03 PM] <[t]Sefidel> you really want to be an ass hole
[7:58:08 PM] <[t]Sefidel> ev ery time i defend america
[7:58:10 PM] <[t]Sefidel> i get muted
[7:58:18 PM] <[t]Sefidel> you piece of shit hypocrit
[7:58:33 PM] <[t]Sefidel> you arrogant hypocrit piece of shit
[7:58:43 PM] <[t]Sefidel> go ahead and ban me i can dodge that shit you high and mighty ass hole
[7:58:45 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:46 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:46 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:46 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:46 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:47 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:48 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:48 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:48 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:48 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:49 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:49 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:49 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:49 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:49 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:50 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:51 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:51 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:51 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:51 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:52 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:53 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:54 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:55 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:55 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:58:55 PM] <[t]Sefidel> FUCK YOU
[7:59:00 PM] <[t]Sefidel> bitch

I cannot see by any means how this could be acceptable behaviour in this community, PM'd to anyone, let alone a moderator. Either way, he explicitly told me to ban him, as you can see within that quote. At this point, I intended to remove him for a couple of days.

After that, rage in #sy (the magnitude of which merits a ban until further notice imo), and a bandodge or two (username PeetSucks for the first one; I can't remember if there was another) to rage in #main and PM. More rage in #sy.

Then,

[8:24:57 AM] <cobracommander> perhaps my reacion
[8:25:00 AM] <cobracommander> is over the top
[8:25:05 AM] <cobracommander> but i believe
[8:25:08 AM] <cobracommander> so was yours
[8:25:15 AM] <cobracommander> there were many options
[8:25:17 AM] <cobracommander> other than ban
[8:25:22 AM] <cobracommander> that would have been just as effective
[8:25:31 AM] <cobracommander> and i doubt you would have banned
[8:25:37 AM] <cobracommander> if i had pm spammed
[8:25:41 AM] <cobracommander> same stuff to others
[8:25:46 AM] <cobracommander> so tis kinda a double standard
[8:25:55 AM] <cobracommander> but really, i dont give a shit, i just want to play a game
[8:25:58 AM] <cobracommander> so i apologize
[8:26:02 AM] <cobracommander> please unban me
[8:26:37 AM] <Peet> Considering your behaviour to me in PM and in #sy...Try apologizing in a week, or a month, or perhaps several years.
[8:26:47 AM] <cobracommander> and the unban?

Three words, "so i apologize" is by no means a justification, or sufficient pentinence for the above behaviour. Repeatedly dodging bans is not a reason for him to be unbanned, but rather further justification for a permanent removal. I did not re-ban him because he was apologizing, nor because I was angry at him. I re-banned him to continue to enforce the original ban.

To address the opinion of some in #main, this is not a personal matter. Other than in the case of flagrantly repetitive offenders, I consider all of my actions on an incident-by-incident basis - I was not considering Sefidel's previous mutes (the specifics of which I cannot even remember) when I acted. I did not act out of a grudge against him, nor do I even carry such a grudge. I muted him because it was obvious he was not going to cooperate with my efforts to tone down the discussion in #main, and I banned him because of his behaviour in PM to me.

Is there anything left unclear?


edit: Oh, current intent - will he be unbanned? Considering the logs of what happened in #sy, my say is hell no. However, depending on the opinions of the other moderators he may be let back in after some time. Sefidel definitely (and quite obviously) does not deserve to come back immediately. His chances of coming back will be inversely proportional to his behaviour between now and the theoretical date of unbanning, said behaviour including how he acts in #sy, and whether he continues to ban dodge.

[tombom]

I think the initial mute was a bit unfair and several others deserved mutes more, but instead of reasonably saying "Hey I think that was a bit unfair, some other people were swearing and insulting everybody from a country and I was a bit annoyed" or something, he spams the mod who muted him with FUCK YOUs, develops a persecution complex, proceeds to spam moderators who aren't there on #sy, spams the channel itself, registers several smurfs and constantly dismisses people trying to be reasonable. That's enough to warrant a ban for a pretty long time in my view.

[Peet]

I was about to mute the others, actually, but was interrupted by the PM spam.

[AF]

May I note that since I last posted in this thread sefidel has been attempting to pm someone he thought was me in order to get unbanned using another user name, so I would keep an eye out.

May I make it clear to anyone and everyone I do not have the power to unban people, and if I were a moderator, the only unbanning I would be doing is either when told to unban or when it is related to lobby development accidents and server autobans coupled with very good explanations.

[KDR_11k]

Murder =/= swearing

OH LORD, HE SWORE, BAN FOREVER.

Analogy =/= an exact description. The analogy holds because the elements used for the purpose of the argument (reacting to a perceived injustice with an unacceptable act that's much worse than what he was originally accused of). If you think it's still wrong in a meaningful way please point that out.

[AF]

Can I also make clear that []AF != []benAFben, so people who have contacted my friend ben thinking he was me, could you contact me?

[Nixa]

Ok Ima make an appearance for the first time in about a year on here for this post :D

That was a stupid mute on #main... you hadn't been there so you can't use logs to justify it. If you had read the logs then maybe you could have some grounds but you didn't.

This and the fact that those 2 really hate each other by the sounds of it... It's all a bit iffy. I know if I was sefidel and I got muted for no valid reason I'd probably be very pissed aswell. Probably not spam the mod that did it, but A) I'm not sef and B) He had bad history with peet.

Now anyyyyyyyywayyyyyyy is there ne way to add someone to your ignore list. He could just do that and be muted from any channel he's most likely to throw it in?

GG SPRING

[SwiftSpear]

There probably is some Anti-Americanism in #main... but the fact of the matter is, we have rules, you aren't allowed to flame other users for any reason, and "everyone else was doing it" is not an excuse. Sefidel consistently shows that he has to be the one to take things too far. He's self centered and believes we have nothing better to do than constantly read #main and ban anyone with opinions we disagree with.

#main is not a philosophy, or argumentative discussion channel, yes, some topics of discussion won't be allowed simply on the basis that they are too volatile for meaningful debate to take place. That being said, arguing virtually ANYTHING, if you can do so without at least ad hominem (read, flaming your opponent instead of presenting evidence or discounting their position) you're ALOT less likely to get muted.

Alot of our moderators ARE American... but it seems in sefi's case he's unwilling to take authoritative action from anyone who isn't, in which case our ability to tolerate him is going to be limited, and that's just the fact of the matter.

[Peet]

Nixa: Are you sure you read this thread? I've already addressed pretty much everything you've put forth. I switched to #main, saw a discussion getting out of hand, and moved to address this issue - and was immediately met with resistance from Sefidel, for which I felt a mute was necessary.

This and the fact that those 2 really hate each other by the sounds of it...

Sefidel (and the rest of this situation) have next to no emotional significance to me, other than some exasperation at the fact that some people here and roughly half of the common #main residents are ignoring everything I say and assuming I have a vendetta against him. Sefidel may loathe me, but I really don't feel anything towards him.

That aside, even if I had muted him for absolutely no reason whatsoever his behaviour after the mute was completely inexcusable.

[SwiftSpear]

The last time sefi was muted or banned, I did it IIRC.

[Argh]

Personally, I'm 100% behind the ban, just because of the cursing... I don't care who it was directed at, I think it's uncool that people get away with that.

Nor do I think that spamming PMs is acceptable behavior.

I think we should just auto-mute people who swear a lot, frankly, it serves no useful purpose, and makes the Lobby a lot less kid-friendly.

[Neddie]

And I simply think this situation has grown out of hand.

[Nixa]

Net rage... need more chill around here

[Neddie]

How you been, Nixa?

[LordMatt]

Why are we having a thread about this? Seems pretty open and shut case to me...