Tibet ~~

[Sleksa]

So what's your opinion in what's happening in tibet?

The china's ambassador in finland was just interviewed in a morning talkshow(something like good morning america show~~) and the conversation went pretty much like this;

-host:
"So theres obviously something happening in tibet, what do you think about sending international observers there?"

-ambassador:
"I see no reason to have international observers in china's soil, if there is something wrong, china will find solutions"

-host:
"What do you think about dalai lama's opinions on how to fix the problems in tibet"

-ambassador
"Well we have found a lot of evidence that shows that dalai lama is behind attempted monk-suicide bombing attempts and a lot of hostile attacks against china, and we keep finding more evidence to support these claims. Dalai lama is not much more than a lying terrorist."

Personally i find it pretty funny that she used the word China's soil of tibet, and that they keep finding(forging) new evidence of dalai lama's evilness.

[manored]

I dont know whats happening on tibet, but I dont think people who are against it should try to protest putting out the olimpic torch :)

[Sleksa]

i dont think china should've been the host of the olympics at all.

if you expect some respect from other countries, you should give some respect to them back ~~

[REVENGE]

Scapegoating the Dalai Lama isn't very useful. Instead, they should be making a full effort in catching the Tibetan extremists who actually instigated the violence. Many "non-native" Chinese Tibetan residents were murdered and/or had their property stolen or destroyed. The extremists threatened other peaceful native Tibetans into commiting crimes with them, and after the event had come to a close, many of those pressured Tibetans turned themselves in.

[REVENGE]

i dont think china should've been the host of the olympics at all.

if you expect some respect from other countries, you should give some respect to them back ~~

I think it's a little too much to expect China to turn into a free and civil-rights guaranteed Democracy overnight. That said, theres nothing so extreme as to warrant excluding them from being a host nation to the Olympics.

[Pxtl]

i dont think china should've been the host of the olympics at all.

if you expect some respect from other countries, you should give some respect to them back ~~

The Olympics should not be in China, but they are. What bugs me is the whole "boycott the olympics" attitude. That's just letting somebody else (the athletes) do your protesting for you - missing out on what might be the most important moment of their lives for you. Want to boycott China? Stop buying cheap Chinese crap.

The civilized world should not be doing business with dictators.

And yes, terror tactics aren't cool, even if they're perpetrated by nationalists from a country with a very legitimate grievance against their occupiers.

[Sleksa]

Scapegoating the Dalai Lama isn't very useful. Instead, they should be making a full effort in catching the Tibetan extremists who actually instigated the violence. Many "non-native" Chinese Tibetan residents were murdered and/or had their property stolen or destroyed. The extremists threatened other peaceful native Tibetans into commiting crimes with them, and after the event had come to a close, many of those pressured Tibetans turned themselves in.

And why do you think this situation is going on? i can understand their sentiments saying that 50 years of peaceful resistance has gotten them 0 freedom, wikipedia quotes such as

In 2006 a lawsuit was filed by the Madrid-based Committee to Support Tibet in a Spanish court. The group said that more than one million Tibetans had been killed or gone missing since China occupied Tibet in 1951.

The peaceful liberation turned brutal over the next several years as the Tibetans opposed it, culminating with the PLA shelling a crowd of 20,000 civilians who surrounded the Potala Palace.[43] During this campaign, tens of thousands of Tibetans were killed by the Chinese

sure dont make china look like a happy socialist father to tibet either ~~

The Olympics should not be in China, but they are. What bugs me is the whole "boycott the olympics" attitude. That's just letting somebody else (the athletes) do your protesting for you - missing out on what might be the most important moment of their lives for you. Want to boycott China? Stop buying cheap Chinese crap.

Yes, i wouldnt want to throw my lifetime's work to boycott something either ~~

And yes, terror tactics aren't cool, even if they're perpetrated by nationalists from a country with a very legitimate grievance against their occupiers.

Well i'd rather trust dalai lama's word that china is making the buddhist-suicide monks stuff up, rather than china's official press which is blurting out obvious shit everywhere.

[REVENGE]

And why do you think this situation is going on? i can understand their sentiments saying that 50 years of peaceful resistance has gotten them 0 freedom, wikipedia quotes such as

Yes, but certainly you agree that regardless of what the situation is today, the murder and plunder of innocent civilians is wrong and needs to be stopped? Also, I don't think its fair to bash China so harshly for the demographic swamping thats been going on in Tibet. It's been done countless times before in other countries, but nobody else has really given/taken flak. Sometimes, this is the inevitable consequence of industrialization/expansion.

[REVENGE]

china's official press which is blurting out obvious shit everywhere.

Freedom of press is one of the worse problems that's going on, along with internet censorship. The idiots in the central government are only blinding themselves from world realities.

[Sleksa]

china's official press which is blurting out obvious shit everywhere.

Freedom of press is one of the worse problems that's going on, along with internet censorship. The idiots in the central government are only blinding themselves from world realities.

Yeah well i wasnt exactly waiting for the china's ambassador to admit that they attacked tibet in 50's , but saying stuff like buddhist suicide bombings is not going to do any good for them ~~

Yes, but certainly you agree that regardless of what the situation is today, the murder and plunder of innocent civilians is wrong and needs to be stopped?

Yes, but i dont think there would be a guerilla movement in tibet if china hadn't assaulted tibet :p

It's been done countless times before in other countries, but nobody else has really given/taken flak. Sometimes, this is the inevitable consequence of industrialization/expansion.

CIA funded/trained guerillas ;>

Other than that there are a lot of examples in other countries being aided during another country's assault. I dont see why tibet shouldnt be helped ~~

[REVENGE]

It's been done countless times before in other countries, but nobody else has really given/taken flak. Sometimes, this is the inevitable consequence of industrialization/expansion.

CIA funded/trained guerillas ;>

Other than that there are a lot of examples in other countries being aided during another country's assault. I dont see why tibet shouldnt be helped ~~

Oh no, I'm not talking about some sort of covert operation to occupy territory Sleska. I'm talking things such as Europeans invading the New World and eventually replacing the native civilizations and populations. In more recent times, you can consider what happened in the US Western States. First, there was Oregon and Washington, which we successfully took control of because we first intentionally sent Americans up there until the former British majority became a minority. California is a bit of a stretch, but you could argue that the large number of frontier settlers who moved in up to the point of the revolt/Bear Flag Republic ensured we had an advantage over the native Mexican rulers at the time. And as for the Native Americans, nobody seems to really give a shit about their loss of independence. Sure, they've got their own "reservations", but honestly, thats more of a tool to ease the national conscience than to preserve their cultural/political sovereignty.

As nations grow and expand, there's a natural tendency for minority populations and cultures to be marginalized. Applying this to Tibet, China did indeed send major armed forces to the area to crush the opposition, but after decades of "occupation", the demographics of the area are shifting. Native Tibetans have become the minority, with more and more Chinese outsiders moving in via improved transportation [the new railroad, ie]. The recent events reflect the fear of cultural and ethnic erosion.

[Sleksa]

Yeah, i heard that there were roughly 2500 buddhist temples in tibet , and after 50 years there are ~20 registered temples left ~~

I'm talking things such as Europeans invading the New World and eventually replacing the native civilizations and populations.

For example, in winter war sweden gave 1/3'rd of its airforce to the finns, and assembled 20.000 volunteers, norway arranged volunteers too, and sold turrets for jack cheap prices.

The whole scandinavia also helped estonia as much as they could when stalin started attacking ~~

And as for the Native Americans, nobody seems to really give a shit about their loss of independence. Sure, they've got their own "reservations", but honestly, thats more of a tool to ease the national conscience than to preserve their cultural/political sovereignty.

So because shit has hit the fan in history we should just let it keep happening ~,~

[Pxtl]

Revenge, just give up. Nobody needs an apologist.

And if somebody invaded your country and instituted a totalitarian government that took away your religion and your way of life, you'd probably be pretty uppity about it and wouldn't be saying "but gee, they're so nice and peaceful about their forceful invasion!"

[AF]

Some time several decades ago in a tall skyscraper, lots of media, politicians, and celebrities are sitting around a large table...

"hmm what with this latest public relations disaster we need a popular figure to prop us up that nobodies heard of before"

"oh hey there's this dalai thing in tibet who likes llamas, maybe we can use him?"

"But what does he actually do?!!?"

"Hes some religious wacko but we'll just make sure he never says anything and just show him meeting famous people as if he's some saintly figure"

*lots of people nod their heads*

[tombom]

hmmmm yes because tibet wasn't brilliant at the time china invaded the dalai lama is a figurehead of "lots of media, politicians and celebrities" ergo china is fine in everything they do

[AF]

rotflmfao

[REVENGE]

Revenge, just give up. Nobody needs an apologist.

And if somebody invaded your country and instituted a totalitarian government that took away your religion and your way of life, you'd probably be pretty uppity about it and wouldn't be saying "but gee, they're so nice and peaceful about their forceful invasion!"

Who the fuck said they should be uppity about it? I'm saying, that resorting to violent tactics won't stop a massive population paradigm shift that's ongoing. It would be more productive now to try to take control of positions in local government, and wait until the day the majority of Chinese people demand a Democracy with equal representation. Going out and killing the outsiders does not but hurt your just cause for freedom.

As for taking away their religion and way of life, I disagree with both statements. First of all, there's never been a ban on practicing Tibetan Buddhism; you talk as if it's a felony and the state police will come and haul your ass away. It's been on the decline because of fundamental population changes, not state policy. Secondly, preserving your traditional way of life is beyond difficult in the new millenium. Even if China didn't control Tibet's sovereignty, it would be inevitable that Tibetans would demand a link to the world market/economy, be it through China or somewhere else. Eventually, modernization will catch up with your 'way of life', while isolationism will bring nothing but apathy and poverty.

[AF]

The same could be said of the various people inciting violence in the bordering countries and across the whole middle east from tibet and nepal all the way to countries like serbia/kosovo. That whole region seems to be a hotbed for this sort of activity.

[Sleksa]

As for taking away their religion and way of life, I disagree with both statements. First of all, there's never been a ban on practicing Tibetan Buddhism; you talk as if it's a felony and the state police will come and haul your ass away.

FYI only "registered" religions and temples are allowed in china, Since they see the religions as a direct threat to socialism. Thus all the "unregistered" temples 'n shit have been pretty much systematically destroyed, AFAIK.

Try going into china and establish the church of satan and well see what happens ;F


*edit*

It's been on the decline because of fundamental population changes, not state policy.

The population changes ARE state policy, china is bringing more and more chinese to tibet to show the world that tibet is naturally a part of china ~~

[PicassoCT]

China is Economically highly dependant from the US - so if we have recession, Chinas socialglue (Economical sucess) for all its huge povertygaps which will open up at once. After that any surviving Minority will be as free as it can be..

Only stable Democratic Systems survive the Bullshit Capitalism produces on Black Fridays..