Spring and ModDB

[Argh]

I think that any mention of OTA is a bad idea, personally. Just mention that there are remakes of OTA available for the game engine.

[SinbadEV]

While I think it's irresponsible to not acknowledge our heritage because then when people come looking for PURE and see Complete Annihilation.

I think we should minimize any mention of Total Annihilation but we use the same model format, unit format, scripting language, text file structure, and 90% of our player base plays nothing but TA mods and all our mods have an identical resource structure and tech-tree format.

What do you think it should say.

[Saktoth]

Too Many Capitals In The First Line. Group of Community Members? Why not say a community of community members or a group of group members.

But, more that direction though- saying 'This is an engine not a game' and not saying 'Spring is TA' and emphasizing the fact its free and OS.

[LordMatt]

I think that any mention of OTA is a bad idea, personally. Just mention that there are remakes of OTA available for the game engine.

Spring wouldn't exist without OTA.

[Argh]

Um, my concern is with copyright issues, and making Spring's connection to Atari's property really strong there seems dumb, imo.

Saying that many mods feature OTA's gameplay, units, etc. seems fair to everybody, but doesn't continue to paint Spring as an OTA clone.

The only part I substantially disagree with is the use of a trademarked phrase, i.e., "Total Annihilation", without due to care to note that this is an emulator, and is not associated in any way with Atari. Nowhere in the current text are those kinds of distinctions made...

[Warlord Zsinj]

I think the link between Spring and TA needs to be made. It is the only RTS, other then Supreme Commander, that has actually learnt it's gameplay lessons from TA. It's engine was originally entirely based around reproducing TA gameplay - and if it was based around producing, say, Starcraft gameplay, it would be an entirely different engine. Veteran loyalty aside, I think it's a big selling point. Making the link without incurring the ire of Atari shouldn't be that difficult - Supreme Commander was mentioned with TA in almost every article, and practically coined the term "spiritual successor", and Atari did nothing, even though they theoretically would have a lot more to gain from a suit against GPG/THQ then a suit against an open source project that has been specifically trying to distance itself from legal grey areas.

[Argh]

I'd be totally cool with phrases like "spiritual successor to Total Annihilation", or "emulates the greatness of the Cavedog game, Total Annihilation", etc.

[SinbadEV]

Tweaked it a little...

"The free, open source, Spring RTS game engine is a project built around a community of players, developers and content creators. Individuals and groups have created, and continue to create, a wide variety of games for this engine, demonstrating unique and engaging game-play, innovative balances and tech trees and new fully 3D unit models.

- Stable versions of the engine, lobby client and many games are fully playable today and automatic updates are available when new versions of the core software is released
- Our lobby server allows you to meet up with other players and host or join matches of any of the games designed for the engine that you have installed
- Fully 3D models allow you to zoom in on the action
- Tactical icons allow you to identify units when zoomed out
- Deformable Terrain allows your battles to have an impact on the combat environment
-LUA support for everything from helper widgets to custom user interfaces to additional game-play features and visual effects
- Community developed tools and forum support for anyone interested in making their own games or maps are freely available

The project has it's roots in the TA Modding scene and our original code base was developed by the "Swedish Yankspankers". This group were "programmers not artists" so Spring started as a emulator of Total Annihilation and was packaged with their XTA re-balancing mod in hopes of drumming up the interest of 3D modelers. There are many game-play elements from these roots and support for the old Cavedog units and model formats has been maintained. As such many Total Annihilation Mods have found new life as games in Spring (including the old Star Wars and Gundam Total Conversions) along with brand new games.

Because this project has grown from a modding scene for a commercial game the terms "Unit Pack", "Mod", "Mutator" and "Total Conversion" are used by the community to describe games for the engine.

For more information about Spring and games made to be played with it see our official homepage at: http://Spring.Clan-SY.com"

[Argh]

Cool, that's much better.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Not bad, but I think a number of your bullet points are more things that are interesting to us as people who are already playing, rather then people who have just stumbled on the mod and want to be impressed.

Consider, rather:

- Completely 3D battles, with real world physics - Aircraft will bank, roll and dogfight, units will dart and dodge around fully 3D environments that can be destroyed as you play - shells will fly through the air and rip through anything that happens in their path, units are thrown around from the force of explosions, all calculated in full 3D in real time!
- Hundreds of units clash in a tumultuous symphony of epic warfare, on terrains ranging from snow, rocky mountain passes and alien worlds - some maps being several kilometres in size, taking fast air units minutes to get from one side to the other!
- Advanced graphics and artistic production rivalling some professionally produced products
- Fully stable, fully playable right now - with an active and competitive community of thousands and games going 24/7
- A vibrant community of mod making with a host of different games in production including Total Annihilation Tribute Mods, WW2, Gundam, Star Wars, Modern Warfare, and a host of new universes created purely for the Spring engine.

Just suggestions.

[Argh]

I like that as an intro section, that definitely feels more exciting. With some punchier screens, that could be a very nice intro for people...

[el_matarife]

I'd be totally cool with phrases like "spiritual successor to Total Annihilation", or "emulates the greatness of the Cavedog game, Total Annihilation", etc.

These are exactly the phrases we should use.

Anyway, how many teeth did you have to pull to get ModDB to fix our entry? People have been complaining about our listing for over a year, maybe more.

The main Spring entry under "Games" needs to be updated to reflect the GPL status since people are asking if it is free. http://www.moddb.com/games/153/spring

[Argh]

All I did was send a standard request, and voila, problem solved... it wasn't like I had secret connections, or anything.

[Vadi]

I think that any mention of OTA is a bad idea, personally. Just mention that there are remakes of OTA available for the game engine.

Spring wouldn't exist without OTA.

Yeah, and it's also not going much anywhere because of OTA

It was a great thing at the start, but it's time to lose it if you want to progress anywhere much.

[Warlord Zsinj]

I don't agree - it's like saying "spinal cords were a great part of what made our evolutionary ancestors so great, and so much better then all the useless jellyfish going around, but I think it's time we abandoned them altogether".

TA is an integral part of why Spring is good. We ignore that at our peril.

Also, I am producing a non-TA mod, so I really have the most to lose by the connections with the TA name, but I still think that link should be kept. Ensuring it is bubblewrapped in legal jumbo like 'spiritual successor' and 'fan-remake' etc is fine.

[KDR_11k]

What annoys me is that OTA is hardcoded.

[NKrypt]

Yeah, and it's also not going much anywhere because of OTA

It was a great thing at the start, but it's time to lose it if you want to progress anywhere much.

That's the most intelligent thing someone's said in this entire thread.

TA is old, more than 10 years old in fact. Fine it's great building on it 5 years ago but it's image is now very very dated and that's coming out in Spring.

I say ditch the old and get a new image. Something that's different. That'll pull in the punters!

[Vadi]

I don't agree - it's like saying "spinal cords were a great part of what made our evolutionary ancestors so great, and so much better then all the useless jellyfish going around, but I think it's time we abandoned them altogether".

TA is an integral part of why Spring is good. We ignore that at our peril.

Also, I am producing a non-TA mod, so I really have the most to lose by the connections with the TA name, but I still think that link should be kept. Ensuring it is bubblewrapped in legal jumbo like 'spiritual successor' and 'fan-remake' etc is fine.

I'm saying the legal issues with it, not that TA should be gone. Argh.

I don't care about the concept - I'm too young to have played TA, so I don't know what the "original" is. There are gameplay changes through the mods, but it's a personal preference as to which is better for you.

[ralphie]

does anyone even use moddb?

[Vadi]

I personally don't, but once the stuff on moddb is ironed out in regards to springs status, it'll help in other places too.