New GUI testing

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 24 Aug 2005, 11:36

bug:

I noticed that the new-gui release crashes when replaing a demo on the first "alert" (ie warning sound of an attacked unit).

Also, i think when being a spectator there shouldnt be an alert everytime a unit of the "original" team is attacked offscreen. Can get quit annoying when there is a lot of action...

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 24 Aug 2005, 11:58

Okay it looks nice so i did some testing

* Nice to see how much a wreck is worth however there is a strange black line inthere:

* Also when nanostalling, i still can't see the ammount of metal/energy i'm trying to pull, i can only see what i'm actually pulling

the red number says 1.9 but it should say something like 25 cause my comm is trying to build that factory..

* I wasn't able to get in fps mode ( controling a unit )

* on the Keypad the + and - keys don't work

* Screenshots aren't numbered properly, they are numbered screen1.jpg, screen2.jpg and so on. It should be like screen001.jpg screen002.jpg.

* When giving a build que with shift and then releasing shift won't stop the queing, so i hav to press Esc. Which is dangerous cause Shift+esc = exit. So releasing shift should end the build que..

* Also handling the minimap is rather weird right click should move the camera.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 24 Aug 2005, 12:25

* Also handling the minimap is rather weird right click should move the camera.

And then you send move order with a left-click? A bit weird to send move order with right-click ingame and left-click on minimap.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 24 Aug 2005, 12:40

Torrasque wrote:
* Also handling the minimap is rather weird right click should move the camera.
And then you send move order with a left-click? A bit weird to send move order with right-click ingame and left-click on minimap.

now moving camera and selecting units is done with left click..

maybe selecting units with left click on minimap should go..

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 24 Aug 2005, 14:24

* Also handling the minimap is rather weird right click should move the camera.

No! Please! Do not take the evil right click mode back! It makes it imposibole for me to play ANY other strategy games then spring without screwing up totaly!

One of the dealy sins of gameing(made bye swedish pc gamer) is to have hard controls that no one understands, and/or not the abilty to change the controlers yourself!

Is says ( not a direct quote, it's swedish and the issuse is borrowed.) *It's like the game company has thougt ''Oh, now we can have what controls we want, since they can change them.'' And the when the games comes out, they are made for jimbo-bob, 3 fingerd game tester. The point is that any game should try to follow the leading game in the same genre, so you just can jump in and play!''

If a comprimise, have the right click on minimap as an option, but the ''normal'' left click as defult.

Oh, and tracking button dosent work ither.

OH! and speed up is on Insert and Delete on my pc... weird. but i havent updated the client yet so...

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 24 Aug 2005, 18:02

NOiZE wrote:
Keiichi wrote: And the usage of the minimap is a bit troublesome : LMB selects units on the minimap and repositions the camera. The camera should be set by RMB as it was in the old client.
this is anoying yes..

Although i never said anything against the user interface Spring had, because at the time there was a insurgence against the RMB interface and no one seemed to care/understand that it was a better interface, i will say it now.

I sent, some time ago, a message to Gas Powered Games concerning SupCom:

Code: Select all

...
In old TA, the LMB would give the standard order while the RMB had the
function of deselecting.
This obviously isn't a very good standard since we many times give orders
when we are trying to select other units. We also loose the possibility to
do other actions as default, like guarding friendly units instead of
selecting them.

In the standard introduced by Starcraft, which is alot better, the LMB does
all the selections/deselections while the RMB does the default action
(although Starcraft has little default actions assigned. TA::Spring does a
good job with the default selections and uses this standard to good effect).
??? So what's wrong in this standard ???
When we select a specific action, that is, go click (with LMB, the selection
button) in the attack button, the system get's switched and LMB now triggers
the delivery of the order, while the RMB now deselects the order.

!!! The way it should be !!!
Specific actions, like pressing the guard button with the selection button
(LMB), should have it's order replace the default order in the RMB and the
LMB remain as a selection/deselection button.

Also, following the standard, in the minimap, the select button, LMB, should
of course move the screen (select a new are to view) and the RMB, give the
orders.
...

So, although the present system is a perfect copy of virtually all other RTSs that have been copying the standards introduced by Starcrap, i don't see why we shouldn't strive to have the possible best even though everyone else bows to a worst alternative.
Of course, people are now acostumed to this interface but i remember that in the first times of spring, i often tried to move the camera in the minimap with LMB and tried to give specifically targeted actions with the RMB...

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 24 Aug 2005, 18:06

NOiZE wrote:...
now moving camera and selecting units is done with left click..

maybe selecting units with left click on minimap should go..

Without yet testing it, i can already imagine in the heat of battle trying to move the camera and selecting, instead, some unit...

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 24 Aug 2005, 22:18

PauloMorfeo wrote:
NOiZE wrote:...
now moving camera and selecting units is done with left click..

maybe selecting units with left click on minimap should go..
Without yet testing it, i can already imagine in the heat of battle trying to move the camera and selecting, instead, some unit...

Well, i did test it and it happened about 20 times in the first 10 minutes, even without heat of battle...
currently it even selects units while dragging over a rader blip while leftclicking, so even scrolling over the map via the minimap will happiely select random units...

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 24 Aug 2005, 22:30

So, although the present system is a perfect copy of virtually all other RTSs that have been copying the standards introduced by Starcrap, i don't see why we shouldn't strive to have the possible best even though everyone else bows to a worst alternative.

You can strife to whatever you want.

Just give those who wanna play ''Starcrap'' style an option.

Not just becase im used to it, becuase it's seams logical, even if it maybe aint.

No gamer in the world would want their precuis FPS controls removed right?

SinbadEV · Post by **SinbadEV** » 25 Aug 2005, 00:13

heck... not being able to map wasd to movement in spring is driving me crazy

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 25 Aug 2005, 01:05

Kixxe wrote:No! Please! Do not take the evil right click mode back! It makes it imposibole for me to play ANY other strategy games then spring without screwing up totaly!

PauloMorfeo wrote:In old TA, the LMB would give the standard order while the RMB had the function of deselecting.This obviously isn't a very good standard since we many times give orders when we are trying to select other units. We also loose the possibility to do other actions as default, like guarding friendly units instead of selecting them. In the standard introduced by Starcraft, which is alot better, the LMB does all the selections/deselections while the RMB does the default action...

LMB forever!

No way RMB rules!

etc....

There is only way out of this mess.

Program the two kinds of interface, and let each player choose!

Do any of you play First Person Shooter kind of game? Can you imagine playing a FPS with the default factory settings, and no change possible? I, for myself, know that I simply cannot play game without the "invert y-axis" tickbox.

Why is it so hard to bring the same idea to RTS? Can't you see that user definable key & mouse binds is the way to go! (And I'd much appreciate to be able to change them ingame, with a shiny interface that any dummy can use, and not having to manually edit a text file.)

colorblind · Post by **colorblind** » 25 Aug 2005, 14:19

Okay, ontopic again.

* You can't play without sync errors if someone doesn't have the new GUI.
* When queuing buildings it keeps the selected building even when you release SHIFT, after which you have to press ESC.
* Queue lines to mexxes go to the extraction radius, and not to the mexx position.
* A lot of key shortcuts (F1-4, C, etc) don't work, but B (debug) works even in chat.

colorblind · Post by **colorblind** » 25 Aug 2005, 14:35

More bugs:

* it crashes when there's a warning on the minimap (e.g. when one of your units is attacked).

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 25 Aug 2005, 15:47

colorblind wrote:Okay, ontopic again.

* You can't play without sync errors if someone doesn't have the new GUI.
* When queuing buildings it keeps the selected building even when you release SHIFT, after which you have to press ESC.
* Queue lines to mexxes go to the extraction radius, and not to the mexx position.
* A lot of key shortcuts (F1-4, C, etc) don't work, but B (debug) works even in chat.

There was a fix to the "release shift" bug in the thread in the dev forum...

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 25 Aug 2005, 16:07

IMSabbel wrote:
colorblind wrote:Okay, ontopic again.

* You can't play without sync errors if someone doesn't have the new GUI.
* When queuing buildings it keeps the selected building even when you release SHIFT, after which you have to press ESC.
* Queue lines to mexxes go to the extraction radius, and not to the mexx position.
* A lot of key shortcuts (F1-4, C, etc) don't work, but B (debug) works even in chat.
There was a fix to the "release shift" bug in the thread in the dev forum...

Yeah, but it was a shitty fix :)
Shortcut are easy to add in binding.tdf

colorblind · Post by **colorblind** » 25 Aug 2005, 17:20

Torrasque wrote:Shortcut are easy to add in binding.tdf

Might I then suggest that in the next GUI zip a decent binding.tdf (i.e. one that preservers the standard keyboard shortcuts) is included?

jouninkomiko · Post by **jouninkomiko** » 25 Aug 2005, 19:20

Yeah, that's the idea at the moment. There are a few issues with being able to bind press and release states to individual keys, but when those are fixed I can foresee some kind of editor allowing you to set these options: maybe even in game.

colorblind · Post by **colorblind** » 26 Aug 2005, 13:41

One more thing: the default terrain tooltip (displaying height, speed multipliers, metal, etc) is not shown in the new GUI.

colorblind · Post by **colorblind** » 31 Aug 2005, 10:56

*bump*

What's the status of the new GUI? I'd like to do some more testing, but with the instant crash-when-attacked-bug one really can't play a game.

GAR · Post by **GAR** » 01 Sep 2005, 05:48

I am keen to help as well if you are after testers, I don't mind suffering a crash or 2 or 3 etc for the greater good.

At least I could look at another reason other than me LOL.

Great work so far

Spring RTS Engine

New GUI testing