The Role of Graphics in Games

[Pxtl]

Meh, I'm all for sacrificing realism for the sake of appearance - I tend to think the Smoth/OTA approach is best - big swaths of teamcolour on the unit, and screw realism.

[Gota]

Its not always about how much team color its also where exactly it is placed on the unit.

[BlueTemplar]

I'd go with Peet, but as I already said, since teamcolor lines placed in the right spots can be used to enhance the distinctive shape of the unit (whereas IMHO teamplatters do the exact opposite), it would be a shame to not use this effect as much as it can be.

PS:Argh, thank you, but that's not what I was asking for.
I need the exact name of the parameters (and their default values to compare) to place into com.clan-sy.spring.Spring.plist, since I can't use settings.exe, and I don't have the .ini.

Turn the setting "Unit Detail" up to 600, you won't see them any more.

Edit: Nevermind, found it:
viewtopic.php?p=157889#p157889

[KDR_11k]

1. No lighting, use lots of teamcolor everywhere. Typical OTA solution, and it works, but it detracts from immersion in a major way, imo. IRL, we don't splash lots of bright colors on military stuff. I can't stand it, it's completely artificial. You can't win any points with me, by insisting that it's what players want, either, players just want to know what side their stuff is on, and this is like swatting a fly with a tank, imo.

IMO one more color among all the colors modern RTS units already have doesn't hurt. Of course if your models are like in PURE, entirely one color, that'd stand out but if you use a decent variety of colors a TC won't hurt much.

[Argh]

Of course if your models are like in PURE, entirely one color, that'd stand out

Exactly.

Since I'm hardly likely to suddenly reverse course on that, since a basic color scheme is a pretty fundamental design decision, and as an artist, I believe it was a good one... other solutions must be investigated. I'm glad you at least understand where I'm having a problem with that approach, and need to find another solution. When I get some time, hopefully this evening, I'll look at AO baking and see if that will work for me..

[smoth]

@KDR: While I am the last guy on Earth who's going to defend realism at the expense of gameplay, I think that this is a situation where really you're talking about one factor of gameplay detracting from another one- the way teamcolor is implemented in Spring, it's not a positive-sum experience. Hence my frustration with this topic.

Positive sum, ha ha ha where do you get this stuff. I LOEV the way team color is implemented in spring. I am sorry you fail to use it properly. It is ok, we cannot all be competent in photoshop.

@Zpock: I watched your link, it's completely irrelevant.

Only if you are a moron, that was a good video, I added it to my research playlist when zpock posted it.

A game where you cannot change your teamcolors, and they got to use a 32-bit palette, is a different animal entirely. If anything, it highlights my frustrations with the way that teamcolor works in Spring. If we had a system like DoW, where people could paint in various colors and create (and save) combos that they personally thought were pleasing, that'd be one thing. But, instead, we have blunt choices.

OH NOES! we have solid choices, far be it for you to write the lua code for extra color choices. Not that it would matter, you would only have color stripe 1 and 2. Honestly, mr it would detract from the model, have you ever considered that we think your texturing is aweful and setting a unit color to something that is pleasing is part of our aesthetic sense? Honestly, if I wasn't doing something with true canonical colors I would dazzle you out of your ignorance. Instead I have to make clever use of team colors to not ruin someone else's aesthetic while allowing the players to pick their colors.

Fact of the matter is you never knew how to work springs team colors.

1. No lighting, use lots of teamcolor everywhere. Typical OTA solution, and it works, but it detracts from immersion in a major way, imo. IRL, we don't splash lots of bright colors on military stuff. I can't stand it, it's completely artificial.

Blackhawks and F-15's are both equipped with electronic devices that distinguish between friend and foe.

sure is, of course, far be it for a command interface to identify individual units belonging to a party...

@KDR: While I am the last guy on Earth who's going to defend realism at the expense of gameplay,

good so, stop arguing realism

2. Use lighting, use lots of teamcolor everywhere. This would be the CnC solution. Works even better than 1, looks even less immersive, and destroys the specificity of your art.

like the knight?

I hate the TRON-like look, it's very specific, not at all like what I want to see in P.U.R.E.

why did you do it in pure then... oh wait because you do not know what you are doing.

3. No lighting, use sparse teamcolor. Doesn't work, it's practically invisible at range.

http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/FORUM/downlo ... &mode=view
click for large image, I cannot tell what units belong to red or blue team LOL..

4. Use lighting, use sparse teamcolor. Works- with any lighter colors, reds, yellows, pinks, oranges, etc. More immersive, but doesn't work with darker colors very well.

Wait, so full black would be hard to see and wouldn't show up well if glowing. hang on while I make no light glow.

5. Use no teamcolor. Nobody likes that.

Get on it. you are almost there.

6. Try something else.

Like learning how to do it properly? oh no, that is too much work.

I did something else with NanoBlobs, where I had "icons" that depicted teamcolor. These were fail because they made absolutely no sense. I tried that at first, with P.U.R.E. stuff, it didn't work, it was too distracting.

no reply, just fixed your post for you.

Maybe I should use a small, teamcolored marker next to the healthbar (although that would probably conflict with the Healthbar Widget). I'll try the AO solution here in a bit, that might be the most pleasant, although it comes with additional workflow, and immersion will break whenever the "light" doesn't move with the source, so locations would have to be picked very, very carefully.

or you could learn to use teamcolor.

why do I try?!? You arghued for 2 days that pink was red, even when you were presented with the rgb values.

[Frans]

so much juicy flaming...

[smoth]

yeah, why argh cannot tell pink from red is beyond me. For some time I have held the notion that he is somehow color blind.

[Argh]

So much for respectful dialog between peers...

That kind of post is why I don't listen to you any more, Smoth. It's a classic.

Go on, blame me for doing something different and putting the time into trying to make it work. Get on my case for trying to innovate, even when I admit it doesn't work. Tell me that I cannot try anything I want to, that all of the answers are already well-known, when we know they aren't, and that this is a complex issue, involving the aesthetics I want to achieve vs. what players need to play the game.

And when I fail to "see the light" and agree with the herd, tell the world I'm a lazy moron.

I see no point in engaging with you any more

Please refrain from posting further in my mod threads, you're no longer welcome there. I can't stop you from smearing me everywhere else, but there I have rights, and you're officially unwelcome, as of now.

There are lines that shouldn't be crossed, and you're well past that point here. Disagreements between people about something as vague as this topic should not constantly degenerate into "you're a moron if you don't agree with me".

I think it's sad that you don't understand that art isn't something where there's only one solution, or that I, as an artist, have the right to choose a different path. After all, the only person I'm hurting, if I'm wrong, is me. What right do you have, to tell me that I cannot do what I want? Take your hubris elsewhere.

[smoth]

I didn't smear you, I pointed out your flawed counter arguements.

fact of the matter is several people including myself told you to stay out of our threads and you did not. So guess what? I will post where ever I please. It is not my fault you see clear counter points as smearing you.

There are lines that shouldn't be crossed, and you're well past that point here. Disagreements between people about something as vague as this topic should not constantly degenerate into "you're a moron if you don't agree with me".

also, while we are on that topic... I never said that, you are putting words in my mouth, that isn't fair! I mean seriously, just because you have some alternate reality where you are always right does not also have me saying such inelegant things.

[smoth]

also, why are you attacking me with an Ad Hominem argument rather the actually discussing the point at hand. Honestly, you state things as irrefutable facts and say, because I disagree with you I am smearing you? How is that civil?

[Argh]

@Zpock: I watched your link, it's completely irrelevant.

Only if you are a moron, that was a good video, I added it to my research playlist when zpock posted it.

have you ever considered that we think your texturing is aweful

Fact of the matter is you never knew how to work springs team colors.

why did you do it in pure then... oh wait because you do not know what you are doing.

This is the Voice of Reason, eh?

[smoth]

it is, because you have yet to actually address my points. you are still attacking me.

[Argh]

No, I'm explaining why I don't see any point in addressing your points. When you cannot have a discussion with a person without it degenerating like this, it's not worth having.

You can't win arguments by simply saying over and over again that anybody that disagrees with you must be stupid. It's not constructive behavior.

I was open and honest about what I considered to be the challenges in my game's art direction, which is not every game's art direction, and yet you keep making it about me and my game, even though this discussion was meant to be about the broader topic of how to handle this in general, and I was under the impression we were all going to share some ideas here. That's a bit unfair, considering that I don't make this about Gundam, or KP, or S'44, etc., all which have chosen different solutions to this single problem.

[smoth]

like what argh? like the many many arguments where you degenerate completely. Simply put you look for something you can take out of context and cry about. This is all still not discussing the actual points raised. You cannot argue an actual point and as always you continue to attack me. I mean honestly, you have yet to debate the point, in a thread where you are done with me or whatever.

Point is you do not know how to do team color correctly and I am not talking artistically I am saying you do not do the alpha correct. Again, you did not counter my arguements that is fine, I understand that you have no sound arguement other then ad hominem and you always do this.

Fact is that it is getting late and you have yet to actually counter my points instead you try to hide behind some mildly offensive statement. Hang on while I still consider the fact you still misquoted me and the fact that you cannot argue the point past attacking me. I am a better texture artist and modeler so you know you cannot argue that point. Just give up and find somewhere else to try and lord over people.

*edit* cute speed edit, but it still fails.*

[Argh]

I'm not going to discuss, let alone debate, with people who post the things you did, Smoth. That's not a discussion I want to be a part of.

[Warlord Zsinj]

*facepalms*

I don't think either of you are behaving particularly well here; Smoth is being clearly inflammatory and borderline ad hominem; Argh is arguing around smoth's points and crying wolf. You both need to act like the bastions of the community that you clearly are.

Also, don't knock colourblind people - I'm partially colourblind, and I have to have gnome tell me from time to time when I've missed colours entirely

[Forboding Angel]

Does it matter that I could tell the teamcolors in that screenshot?


Free PROTIPS: both of you need to lern2forum

@smoth, you're being an out and out dick. Stop it. And as I've noticed over the past 2 weeks, it is not limited to this thread.

@Argh, smoth does not understand what you are saying half the time and ends up taking it out of context. Try saying the same thing different ways and make sure that your tone doesn't come anywhere near out and out haughty haughty.

[Forboding Angel]

Does the teamcolor platter widget no longer clip?

Take a look at the modified one in Evolution. Yes it does clip a little bit, but it looks really nice.

[rattle]