Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Requests for features in the spring code.

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Teutooni
Posts: 717
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 17:21

Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by Teutooni »

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before.. Anyway, heres the idea:

In late(ish) game there are often a lot of builders all over, many of them idling because there is simply not enough time to give them orders. If I want something built, I really dont care which builders build it, as long as it gets done ASAP.

Therefore I suggest a system where the player gives 'build requests', and the closest idle (or otherwise most suitable) builder start working on it. There would be an AI controlling it, deciding what to build out of multiple requests (concentrate in economy if stalling, for example) and how many builders to send if several are available.

This way the player wouldn't need to search a builder manually, give it order, search another, give it order. Instead he could just request some buildings and let AI handle the micro. This would hopefully save some time, and make things more simple for the player.

It shouldn't replace the individual queue for each builder system, rather complement it.
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lurker
Posts: 3842
Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 06:13

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by lurker »

Assign your idle cons to Central Build AI, and then hit the select group button and give your orders to the AI. They'll all do whatever is closest and then move on to the next and the next.
Now, how happy are you from 1-10 that you can start using this feature right now?

It won't balance econ vs. other, but that's not something you want an AI doing, trust me.
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Teutooni
Posts: 717
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 17:21

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by Teutooni »

Ah well, spring always has some hidden features I don't know about... Like area attack and the flank/rear bonus.

As for how happy I am, I'd say 10, that is exactly what I was thinking of.
zwARREN69
Posts: 40
Joined: 12 Feb 2008, 04:55

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by zwARREN69 »

I never knew you could do that...
manored
Posts: 3179
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 00:37

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by manored »

You dont really need nor should have a lot of things being built at once. Its better to have as few things as you can being built each time because this way they get ready faster and start working straigh away, while if you are building a lot of diferent things at once they will all take a lot of time to get done and start working later. Example: If you tell 2 builders to make 2 flaks, you will have 2 flaks working in the time of 1 flak built, but if you tell 2 builders to make 1 flak and then other you will have 1 flak working in half of the time and the other later. If they were economy buildings, your economy would gain :)

Using that teory, late game you can just add a few "main" builders to groups, then tell loads of other builders to guard then, then select then easly using the group shortcut and tell then to build stuff... thats what I do :)
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Gota
Posts: 7151
Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by Gota »

Thing is that you sometimes have workers scattered all over the place.If you only have a few things building that means workers would have to move all the time from place to place across the map and you wont be using your build power correctly.
Another point is that when you have a very big base your main objective is to keep your builders busy since actually managing things in a fuly rational way in your base is almost impossible when you have like 2 fronts and tens or hundred s of units you need to attack and/or defend with.
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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 08:44

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by KDR_11k »

manored wrote:You dont really need nor should have a lot of things being built at once. Its better to have as few things as you can being built each time because this way they get ready faster and start working straigh away, while if you are building a lot of diferent things at once they will all take a lot of time to get done and start working later. Example: If you tell 2 builders to make 2 flaks, you will have 2 flaks working in the time of 1 flak built, but if you tell 2 builders to make 1 flak and then other you will have 1 flak working in half of the time and the other later. If they were economy buildings, your economy would gain :)

Using that teory, late game you can just add a few "main" builders to groups, then tell loads of other builders to guard then, then select then easly using the group shortcut and tell then to build stuff... thats what I do :)
RThis only applies to mods that permit con assist.
Google_Frog
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by Google_Frog »

Make most of your builders guard a few builders to make your builders more manageable.
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Teutooni
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 17:21

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by Teutooni »

Manored: Managing economy in a game where you only need a few groups is simple to do manually. I was thinking of 1v1 CCR for example: you need to manage tons of builders in the frontline to build mexes, radars and llts and most importantly respond to reclaim opportunities. On top of that you need to keep your base running smoothly, respond to enemy movements, scout and attack. There sometimes is simply not enough time to optimise your buildstrat manually.

I know, 'click faster n00b' - I have ~40 cmd/min at most :oops: so I need hax to compensate the lack of speed. That being said I don't think that as the base / area to manage grows the player should be forced to work faster and faster, but rather make use of new tools.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by KDR_11k »

I think the whole point of 1v1 CCR is to prove your APM, nothing else.
manored
Posts: 3179
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 00:37

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by manored »

Gota wrote:Thing is that you sometimes have workers scattered all over the place.If you only have a few things building that means workers would have to move all the time from place to place across the map and you wont be using your build power correctly.
Another point is that when you have a very big base your main objective is to keep your builders busy since actually managing things in a fuly rational way in your base is almost impossible when you have like 2 fronts and tens or hundred s of units you need to attack and/or defend with.
resources would be stockpiled while the units were moving around, no waste at all. and if you have a really large area to cover you will want units + detection power and not fixed defenses.

I suppose that in mods that dont permit constructor assist that would in fact be hell, unleash economy was slowed down accordingly :)

responding to reclaim oportunities is easy: Just set area reclaim + repeat where the wrecks are gonna be :)
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LordMatt
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Joined: 15 May 2005, 04:26

Re: Improved buildqueue/idlebuilders

Post by LordMatt »

Teutooni wrote: I know, 'click faster n00b' - I have ~40 cmd/min at most :oops: so I need hax to compensate the lack of speed. That being said I don't think that as the base / area to manage grows the player should be forced to work faster and faster, but rather make use of new tools.
You'll probably keep getting faster, the more you play. ;) I remember I used to think going over 40 cmd/min was impossible and now I do routinely.
KDR_11k wrote: I think the whole point of 1v1 CCR is to prove your APM, nothing else.
Not really, I tend to get the highest cmds/min on small kbot maps. CCR proves you can manage a large amount of territory and run a maximally efficient economy.
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