Hovers are op? Discussion (BA)

[Saktoth]

This discussion also called my attention to another point: Sea doesnt haves metal start positions

This is a map problem. Most maps are in the OTA without CC style (No sea metal) or do not have 'clustered' metal spots in the sea (for an easy 3-mex start) but rather have them very spread out (Long walk, or start con- leaving you vulnerable to rush) or have a nice sharp drop into the water near metal spots that allows you to start sea.

[Sleksa]

This discussion also called my attention to another point: Sea doesnt haves metal start positions

sea metal making economy is a lot more faster and efficient than land based econ, since most maps have 20 or higher tidals, and tidals cost like 80 metal compared to solar's 140, and sea mmakers take less e to make metal (atleast they used to?)

[Evil4Zerggin]

and sea mmakers take less e to make metal (atleast they used to?)

Each drains the same E as land MMs but produce 1/10 more metal (T1) or 1/12 more metal (T2). They cost somewhat more energy to build, but that doesn't really matter since if you're running a metal maker economy you'll have enough energy so the energy cost doesn't matter.

[Sleksa]

Each drains the same E as land MMs but produce 1/10 more metal (T1) or 1/12 more metal (T2). They cost somewhat more energy to build, but that doesn't really matter since if you're running a metal maker economy you'll have enough energy so the energy cost doesn't matter.

Oh, didnt they once take like -60 e to make metal compared to land's -80, or am i completely wrong and retarded here ~_~

[det]

Hovers may take a lot of energy to build, but corvettes require a lot of energy to fire lasers. Score another one for hovers. TBH, my tests may have been flawed because I didn't take minintensity into account. If you get your corvette really close to the hovers, it should change things.

edit: Confirmed, corvette rape hovers if you get them really close.

[SLizer]

Good thing to know.

[manored]

But now that everone knows that people will keep their hovers away from corvettes... :)

Sea metal maker econ might be better but it takes a while to build time on wich someone who started hovers on land with loads of metal might womp you. Someone who went sea from land would womp you also but at least you would have the oportunity of sieging land from sea thus preventing him from going sea :)

Also, the sea maps I know have their mexes very spread out: its a vast area that you have to cover to use the mex economy, what hurts because the commander and amphibious units are freaking slow on water, and ship builders are expensive and also not very fast. Starting to think that its not hovers that is OP, but sea that sucks :)

[PRO_rANDY]

i dont mean to be offensive but u not got a clue what u on about

[Neddie]

Sleksa, that was before Zerg's time.

rANDY has a point, though it is difficult to see such a blunt statement penetrate.

Det, don't forget the supreme maneuverability of hovercraft. Of late I've been using scout hovers on mixed maps into late game for ship assassination, scouting, raiding and decoy work because with a little micro, there are few things better for getting around the enemy defenses and mobile guards. Anyway, getting the hovers close implies little micro on the part of the hover user, and some on the part of the corvette user. For the purpose of balance, this slips into player skill and attention.

Anyway, I believe that if you increase the min-intensity to 0.75 and boost the DPS by 2 or 3 percent. This should make the Corv better against hovercraft regardless of micro without changing ship to ship combat much. At T1 we can ill-afford to change much since there are relatively few units for a huge number of roles, and as a result, overlap makes every ship a nightmare in balancing.

[Neddie]

All that said, I'm fine if it stays the way it is, I have a feel for both units so any balance issue is irrelevant - I like using them.

[Evil4Zerggin]

Oh, didnt they once take like -60 e to make metal compared to land's -80, or am i completely wrong and retarded here ~_~

Back in the AA days land mms were 100 E per metal, floating mms were 90 per, land moho mms were 80 per, and underwater moho mms were 70 per .

[manored]

i dont mean to be offensive but u not got a clue what u on about

Dont be lazy and explain it then :)

[LordMatt]

edit: Confirmed, corvette rape hovers if you get them really close.

Like I said...

[KingRaptor]

Doesn't closing in give the hover cannons an easier time hitting you, though...?

[Lupus]

Doesn't closing in give the hover cannons an easier time hitting you, though...?

It does, nevertheless, pushing corvettes close kills hovers faster.

However, anacondas are more mobile than decades, so maybe a little micro can give them advantage? If somebody is willing to do some testing, mesg me on the server ([vlo]Lupus)

[Evil4Zerggin]

Doesn't closing in give the hover cannons an easier time hitting you, though...?

It'd take quite some micro to get hovers to miss 50% of the time even at max range, which is how much damage you lose from minintensity.

It does, nevertheless, pushing corvettes close kills hovers faster.

However, anacondas are more mobile than decades, so maybe a little micro can give them advantage? If somebody is willing to do some testing, mesg me on the server ([vlo]Lupus)

Corv is faster and turn rate is almost the same.

[Lupus]

Corv is faster and turn rate is almost the same.

It is just slightly faster. If anacondas are running away, they can keep decades at distance.

[Neddie]

They have the same range...

[Lupus]

They have the same range...

They have... But, decades shot only at 50% of their power if anacondas are at their maximum range. When running away and changing directions, it's easy for anacondas to keep decades at maximum distance.

And there also one thing to mention: I never used hovertanks like a regular army, to kill everything on the sea. Actually, their speed is often used to fast raids over enemy's economy. They are mostly used to run through the water avoiding ships and kill shipyards, fusions, lab, and so on.

[manored]

And there also one thing to mention: I never used hovertanks like a regular army, to kill everything on the sea. Actually, their speed is often used to fast raids over enemy's economy. They are mostly used to run through the water avoiding ships and kill shipyards, fusions, lab, and so on.

They can often be used to roll over everthing tough. Most sea players dont prepare thenselfes for a hover attack, or leave open passage for hovers to reach the beach and attack their land allies...