new idea ! manager unit ?

[lux72]

What do you think about a new special type of manager units?

the ability of this new unit could be:
- manage one or more other group.
- order build or resurrect for dead/missing units.
- Divide their efforts in attack so that all units attack the same target
- plan specific event answer ex. radar sightings --> Air patrol mission
- efficient fire barrier for artillery.
- Auto Withdrawn to safety/repair area for damaged units
- .....

what do you think about ?

excuse me for me bad english !!!

[AF]

Stolen from supcom promotional media

[lux72]

you could have more time for other work

[Gnomre]

Like what? Playing the gam--

Oh.

[KDR_11k]

Oh Earth 2160 had those. Whenever I told them to build my base they sold half my buildings.

Really it's silly to tie that to a unit in Spring, we've got widgets for that. Well, for anything reasonably automatable. Most things just shouldn't be automated because a human can do them a lot better than a computer (which is why AIs suck at Spring).

[CarRepairer]

I wouldn't equate automation with AI. An AI makes (nondeterministic?) decisions based on many choices. Automation is just decisions you've already made, set to repeat at intervals, or after an elapsed time, or upon certain events. My toaster is automated but isn't AI. So I would say by that definition anything that can be automated, should be. And this is why I think spring is the best game engine I've ever seen.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

but is there really a need for this? you can play effectively with less than 20 commands a minute at most mods

[AF]

Indeed, the optimum method of playing the game doesnt require helper widgets. If you need helper widgets to win the game then you're play style is flawed and you will never be the best regardless of how good your helper widgets become. You may well be degrading your skill not improving it.

Simple menial tasks that can be automated are quite simple for example metalmakers and all the ones we've thought of that apply have been done including a few attempts that don't really work.

Instead any automation work should be geared towards skirmish AI development.

[lux72]

Your objections are right.

I am a spring beginner (not TA) and could not say this but ....

There are many way to play!

I prefer leave the small attacks to AI, as I did in TA because the Total Annihilation AI in same case is more efficent

I have seen some battle by a friend of mine and he finds it difficult to follow all activities even though this play for a long time.

bay

[KDR_11k]

I wouldn't equate automation with AI. An AI makes (nondeterministic?) decisions based on many choices. Automation is just decisions you've already made, set to repeat at intervals, or after an elapsed time, or upon certain events. My toaster is automated but isn't AI. So I would say by that definition anything that can be automated, should be. And this is why I think spring is the best game engine I've ever seen.

If it's not a really dumb task you'll need an AI. Things like sending planes to radar spots (turns out it's a flak, should it really keep sending them?), replacing dead units (are you sure those units need to be replaced or maybe they're just obsolete or were used for a specific maneuver that has ended already?), making all units attack the same target (which one? What if your MGs try tickling a tank? or what about snipers that oneshot most things?), auto retreat (When does it need retreating? Is it perhaps better to fight until death in that specific situation?) and of course managing a group (manage what? Should it attack? Scout? Defend? Move to get repaired?) are not simple problems with only one valid response. All of these would need a smart response depending on the surrounding situation.

Take e.g. an auto-kite rule. Seems easy enough, just stay at max range if possible, right?
Now take Gundam's Ez8. It outranges most units in the early game but it can't fire while retreating (can just shoot, run, shoot, etc). Now Char pops up. To fight Char the Ez8 must get as close as possible to use its melee weapons. If the Ez8 tries to kite it gets defeated. Sounds easy, run close when you see Char, right? Now what if Char has a few Zakus with him? The Ez8 would have to run away. Extend that logic to more situations and you pretty much have an AI.

If you automate anything that requires intelligent decisions you can be damn sure your opponent will exploit it.

[kiki]

um, commanders from wz2100? Those are kind of helpful, especially for arty imo.